Westminstenders: Oh Look is that a fire in the Italian Capital?

[RedToothBrush]

Next stop: 27th Feb.

Where we will apparently have Cooper-Boles II which apparently will pass but still assumes that
a) the EU will grant us an extension despite our fuckwittery
b) that it will prevent accidental no deal, which it doesn't
c) glosses over the minor point that the only way to 100% prevent no deal is to say you'll revoke if everything else fails

Meanwhile in reality we leave in law on 29th March, despite the rest of the law having zero chance of being ready in time. Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal alike.

All that is actually happening is the Tories and Labour fighting amongst themselves. Corbyn is still pretending that Brexit isn't really that important and hoping it will just go away. May is still trying to compromise with the ERG - whom if you paying attention 18 months ago were obviously were never going to compromise on anything - cos they are fuckwitted swivel eyed loons.

Meanwhile the entire country has no other alternative but to assume no deal and act accordingly.

A deal on the 21st March (as is the planned date of the Meaningful Vote) is simply too late for planners. For them no deal has already happened even if it does never come to pass.

The strategy of brinkmanship has destroyed us. We just don't know it yet.

A Split in the Tory and Labour parties may well make matters even worse going forward with further political polarisation.

Where next for Brexit?

Who knows and does it even matter now? The damage is irreversible and will take at least a generation to heal wounds. Economically it may never be recoverable.

FUKD.

Inner strength wont feed my kids.

Mumsnetters against fascism?

I'm in x

It seems to me that the majority of people now supporting WA on here don’t actually live in the UK or planning and able to leave it soon!

Yes WA is the best for the EU other than Revoke but please ex pats please be aware that there are many of us here still hoping for a Revoke even last minute one.

My one last grasp at straws is that TM as a diabetic would have problems herself and turkeys don’t usually vote for Xmas. Her fury on Thursday may make her realise that her efforts to keep her party together are pointless as the ERG are completely untrustworthy even within their own party.

But I keep prepping. I am very worried about medication too. Tongue probably ok so can tick that off the list. Changing drugs is very difficult for me as an epileptic who is currently seizure free. I think it may have about 6 weeks surplus if I am lucky.

There didn’t seem to be shortages last time I collected my meds, but who knows for the future. I already have an out of date epi pen for my allergy so having to be very careful with that too.

By the way, it was too obvious to keep the prepping we are doing from my lovely cleaner. I know things are tight for her financially so I helped her prep too.

Hasenstein Very natural to put urgent family needs first

As you know, private insurance is more expensive as we age and usually excludes pre-existing conditions- a particular problem is that the German authorities may not accept a health policy with restrictions

However, would you and your DW both be in receipt of the UK state pension by the time you are thinking of moving ?

The WA would permanently continue the current system within the EU, whereby anyone in receipt of a state pension has their healthcare costs paid by the state issuing the pension.
This is activated via Form S1 iirc, the same form you'd fill out to have your pension paid there

It seems to me that the majority of people now supporting WA on here don’t actually live in the UK or planning and able to leave it soon

Or are not mothers or carers, with all the responsibility without the power, which goes with that.

If anyone wants cheering up have a look at the 'I can solve all your problems' thread by Thighofrelief.
You won't find any of that positive mental attitude/inner strength malarkey on there. It's very funny.

Hasenstein and everyone else caught up especially badly in this god awful mess - I am really running out of words to describe how I feel and think.

Re WA v continue to fight - I can see both sides but time is running out and my instinct is to avoid no deal at all costs. But WA May land us in a worse place in the end. I don't know.

Pretzels thank you for marching. The Look North piece was encouraging wasn't it.

Lastly as someone wisely said earlier, we do have each other here. Things would be a lot more scary without these threads, and I am eternally grateful to RTB and all the regulars for this invaluable source of information and support.

2bees Remain is by far the best option for the EU too
They just think there is almost no chance of that happening

For both the UK and the EU, No Deal is by far the worst option, worse than the WA
The WA is slow decline for the UK; No Deal is falling off the cliff and would be a disaster from which we might never recover our former prosperity

I hope MPs seize any chance to put forward a Remain or PV option,
but not if it involves voting down the WA, which is by far our most likely option to avoid no Deal

That proposal for a Remain vs WA PV would be my favourite option, but I fear it has little chance

2bees wasn't posting today but I am so relieved for you that the tounge thing is looking ok! That's made my day. hope the recovery from op is going well. You've been so brave the past few weeks.

I'm damn sure that May and any other MP needing medication won't run short.
Neither will the Royal Family

The wealthy can move abroad for a while, or just take a short trip anytime, to get medications

It's the bottom 50% or so who would suffer any shortages - those who can't afford / physically manage even a short trip abroad at short notice if meds run out

Thanks for that, Red

We both get a UK state pension, so I'd presume by what you say that we'd be covered in the event of a transition period. That's one less worry!

I realise I sounded a bit selfish in my last post and am horribly aware that many people don't even have our choices and would have to stay put and suffer. This shit-storm will affect all but the richest and will hit the poorest hardest. I'm past recriminations about the latter voting for their own downfall and just feel hugely sad for everyone in the UK.

And I also appreciate that the WA is like wetting your pants - a short warm glow followed by cold horror. I've done all I can - written to and seen my MP, been on marches, signed every petition that comes my way, earned a reputation for arguing for Remain with all my friends, some of whom I'm now increasingly estranged from - but there comes a point when nearest and dearest have to come first.

So I'll carry on hoping for a PV (am actually wearing a PV T-shirt I got from the last rally ) or Revoke, but if the last few years have taught me anything, it's that you have to be realistic and if I'm lucky enough to have a way out, then I'll take it.

And anyway, as I've said, if it's No Deal, I'll be huddling in misery here along with everyone other unwonted victim of this whole flight of lunacy.

Opps, sorry, for Red read BigChoc.

@Jericho1 , I live here in UK. I'm a mother. I voted Remain. I have a very modest income. I have a chronic health condition. I'm not sure what you mean.
I support WA (and have for a while) because it is the only feasible alternative I see to No Deal.
I don't think it's fab. In fact, I think it's deeply flawed. But, Jesus Christ, it's better than No Deal.

There will be no deal. Bellini that was all that Brexit was ever about.

The WA is dead, deceased, no more, etc. In the context of May's behaviour over the last 2 years few realistic commentators could have believed it was a tenable proposal.

Worse still, the British government is internationally and internally regarded as 'not acting in good faith': the most expensive aspect of the whole business.

It seems to me that the majority of people now supporting WA on here don’t actually live in the UK or planning and able to leave it soon

I also think it depends where you are on the optimism/ pessimism/ realism/ cynicism spectrum.

I started off two years ago determined to fight, determined to sense would out. That if enough of us spoke out there could be a shift. I was Convinced that enough of us with petitions, protests, facts and figures could make the other half see sense.

I am now far, far more pessimistic about the capacity for understanding and engagement of too many politicians and voters. The 26% of the population being unable to distinguish no Brexit and no deal was a watershed for me. How can you fight that?

I think what comes through on this thread is various paces of a shift to very reluctant resignation.

There simply is insufficient political leadership or consensus to turn back the tide. The Current rumours of defections and a new party may lead to a new force that will rejoin the EU and may lead to catharsis. A new party may emerge to address many inequities and could produce a new humility. It will be years or decades before that comes to full fruition though.

I now think full nemesis is inevitable- so am sort of despairingly 'whatever' about it now for myself-resigned to a WA or even no deal as alternative limbs of inevitability.

That doesn't stop me being white hot angry for those needing medicines, losing businesses, jobs, reliant on the NHS using food banks, anxious about being with loved ones, losing their home and so on. However my fervent belief that it can be stopped has now faded.

I agree with jericho and lonely

Pretty much anything is better than No Deal. Maybe I would chose No Deal over fascist dictatorship or nuclear war, but that's pretty much it. I simply cannot see how No Deal could be considered as a reasonable option.
Remain/ Revoke will not happen. It just won't.

I am neither a mother or specifically a carer but I take the future welfare of my DC very seriously.
I am now an immigrant in Europe and being used as a pawn by the UK government who are such bastards that despite paying UK tax for over 40 years they won't guarantee pension or any other rights unconditionally.
There is an underlying slur against men on MN by some which is totally disgusting.

In the interests of avoiding what is about to happen, I had hoped that the (Now cancelled) Feb 14th vote would have passed the WA ( and even the one in December and even the one in January)

That May cancels votes and refuses to attend the HOC means only one thing.

There is a worrying narrative of blaming 'Hard Remainers' for the failure of the impossible WA, with the even more impossible May, on this thread, and elsewhere.

It has eerie parallels with the even worse and dangerous blame game being spouted by the brexists and their rich funders.

The crash out will be blamed on the EU.

The crash out will be blamed on those who are pro EU in this country.

Not good.

Those No Deal twats can blame who they like. It's on them. And anyone who still supports No Deal.

we all need to take part in some of that awfully phrased 'self care'

I'm planting up my garden. Very therapeutic. I recommend it.

DF has gone home and I am pretty happy as I have taken the decision to directly challenge him with logic & facts. It felt so good. Thanks for the support on here. It is a welcome piece of sanity in a crazy world.

[There is an underlying slur against men on MN by some which is totally disgusting.]

Can't say I've ever particularly noticed this, LeClerc, but I'm only ever on this thread, so can't comment about others. I've always felt very comfortable on here

I'm neither a mother nor a carer. I'm fucking livid on my behalf and those who can't afford a No Deal. Who'll be less able to get essential medication when they need it and have enough food.

I don't recognise this country and I fear for our future.