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Brexit

Westminstenders: Oh Look is that a fire in the Italian Capital?

994 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2019 21:20

Next stop: 27th Feb.

Where we will apparently have Cooper-Boles II which apparently will pass but still assumes that
a) the EU will grant us an extension despite our fuckwittery
b) that it will prevent accidental no deal, which it doesn't
c) glosses over the minor point that the only way to 100% prevent no deal is to say you'll revoke if everything else fails

Meanwhile in reality we leave in law on 29th March, despite the rest of the law having zero chance of being ready in time. Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal alike.

All that is actually happening is the Tories and Labour fighting amongst themselves. Corbyn is still pretending that Brexit isn't really that important and hoping it will just go away. May is still trying to compromise with the ERG - whom if you paying attention 18 months ago were obviously were never going to compromise on anything - cos they are fuckwitted swivel eyed loons.

Meanwhile the entire country has no other alternative but to assume no deal and act accordingly.

A deal on the 21st March (as is the planned date of the Meaningful Vote) is simply too late for planners. For them no deal has already happened even if it does never come to pass.

The strategy of brinkmanship has destroyed us. We just don't know it yet.

A Split in the Tory and Labour parties may well make matters even worse going forward with further political polarisation.

Where next for Brexit?

Who knows and does it even matter now? The damage is irreversible and will take at least a generation to heal wounds. Economically it may never be recoverable.

FUKD.

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wherearemychickens · 16/02/2019 09:13

I think I read the other day that it is much easier for the Conservatives to get someone deselected than it is Labour - they have different rules.

Grieve would be a real loss to parliament.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2019 09:13

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/15/no-deal-brexit-dozen-ministers-resign-dominic-grieve-tory

Dominic Grievee^, a leading Conservative opponent of Brexit, has predicted that up to a dozen ministers – including six from the cabinet – could resign if Britain leaves the EU without a deal.

< that is no fucking use AFTER No Deal !
They need to tell May they will resign if she doesn't agree by say 25 Feb to support a PV or another specific action to prevent No Deal

  • then actually resign if she doesn't do this, so they can campaign fully without the constraints of being a minister >
GroovieGazelloo · 16/02/2019 09:15

"I then thought of the 6 million Jews murdered by the Nazis - unfortunately being amenable to having faith didn't help them - I suspect that many of them were too ready to believe in the goodness of human nature, and didn't realise how bad it could or would get."

To stop fascism, those standing against it need to be predominant. And it can be done peacefully.

I wish you well sos.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 16/02/2019 09:17

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47247835/jacob-rees-mogg-comments-on-concentration-camps

oh.
I feel utterly sick after watching that. We really do have a full on fascist shoving us off the No Deal cliff.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2019 09:19

iirc, Soubry and several other Tory Remainers & moderates are facing deselection.

Some Leave campaigners & donors are offering support to local party efforts to remove them

Another reason I really really don't want a GE:
in the Tory party, deselection could happen quickly and after the GE we might be without key moderates on at least the tory side

  • and of course with even more Tory MPs overall, we are more likely to have No Deal
BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2019 09:23

Even before the ref, I never considered JRM merely the "loveable English eccentric" with a sense of humour that he pretended to be

It was always an act, so that when he later turned to his serious politics, people thought him too likeable & funny to be a fascist

Peregrina · 16/02/2019 09:25

I felt angry reading about the Tory Remainers facing deselection, but I hope if so, they have enough gumption to stand as independents and split the vote. Why is there no movement to deselect ERG members who have been much more disloyal to Theresa May?

However, more in my neck of the woods, Oxfordshire, with District and Town elections due in May, all is not well with the Tories. The Tories have fallen out in South Oxfordshire in a big way with six members being expelled from the party - all to do with building in the green belt. Rumour has it that many Councillors in adjacent constituencies are not going to stand again. Oh dear, oh dear, why am I not more upset?

jasjas1973 · 16/02/2019 09:26

...oh yes and he also got a decent round of applause too! black people locked up and murdered, who gives a fuck.
1 million muslims imprisoned in camps in China? lets do a trade deal.

JRM of course will not receive the questioning or negative press that McDonnel has had over his Churchill Hero or Villain remark either.

The UK is a very nasty place to live.

borntobequiet · 16/02/2019 09:28

I think the thing that worries me most is that so many (including the better sort of politician such as Grieve) think that if a no deal happens, things can just carry on as normal in public life, with politicians making pointless proclamations and gestures, institutions bumbling along despite being underfunded and people going about their everyday business despite some inconvenience. Well, they might be right, but I doubt it. I think the effects would be profoundly destructive of the way our society currently operates and would in the short term lead to some form of authoritarian government relying heavily on the police and military to suppress dissent. Long term, who knows?
I agree with some other posters that staying in the EU is now not an option. The UK has shown that it’s capable not only of destroying itself in pursuit of a criminal delusion, but also destroying all around it. The WA is the best we can hope for at this point and possibly the only way back to some form of normality.

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2019 09:32

Inner strength doesn't put food on the table. Stop you needing certain meds. Or stop riots.

It might be useful but inner strength alone won't help you survive.

More often than not in extreme crisis, it comes down to pure luck and a bit of forethought to get you by.

And there's only so much of that you can do.

Right now, enjoying things as they are is a good philosophy.

And on that note I will probably hit the pub at some point today. Again.

There are many many good craft beers that need to be tested before Brexit.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 16/02/2019 09:33

(I can only drink about a pint in a sitting. So three thirds and I'm done. Before you think I'm a raving alkie)

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2019 09:38

Peregrina "Why is there no movement to deselect ERG members who have been much more disloyal to Theresa May?"

because the disloyalty is merely an excuse to get rid of MPs with views on Europe very different to the batshit local party members.
The ERG reflect the views of members.

The Tory party membership has overwhelmingly become the Monster Raving Loony Party - but they aren't the least bit funny

OhYouBadBadKitten · 16/02/2019 09:42

I do like a nice real ale.

Jericho1 · 16/02/2019 09:45

Cheers RedToothBrush have a good afternoon. Smile

OhYouBadBadKitten · 16/02/2019 09:45

Maybe we need to start organizing ourselves into a direct action group. Mumsnetters Against Fascists.

TalkinPeece · 16/02/2019 09:59

Labour are deselecting moderates
the Tories are deselecting moderates
FFS who will fill the gaping chasm in the sane centre ground

borntobequiet · 16/02/2019 10:02

We need a party called Centre Ground.

borntobequiet · 16/02/2019 10:03

Or Sane Centre Ground.

Sostenueto · 16/02/2019 10:04

kitten well said and thanks.Flowers thanks to bigchoc too.Wine people cope in different ways. I do think inner strength is important but its only my opinion. Its not meant to tell people what to do. Its what I do, I was only trying to reassure people. No need for anyone to take offense. As kitten said we stick together, comfort each other and anything is possible.Flowers

Sostenueto · 16/02/2019 10:17

Well I like being unmumsynet so hugs to all too. Off to visit dgc and have lunch. Have a good day all of you.Wine

Sostenueto · 16/02/2019 10:21

Apparently one of the most common phrases in psychology is people do the right things for the wrong reasons so my dgd just informed me.Confused

Motheroffourdragons · 16/02/2019 10:22

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

1tisILeClerc · 16/02/2019 10:36

{The UK has shown that it’s capable not only of destroying itself in pursuit of a criminal delusion, but also destroying all around it}

With Farage openly saying he wants to destroy the EU and with his linkage with Russia and 'dodgy money' gradually being exposed, I am sure the EU don't want him around.
To be of any use to the EU the UK has to be demonstrably at least say 65% PRO European. That's not happening.

{Mumsnetters Against Fascists.}

Just don't set it up In Altrincham!

Peregrina · 16/02/2019 10:44

The Tory party membership has overwhelmingly become the Monster Raving Loony Party - but they aren't the least bit funny

Indeed so. I suspect that is why a lot of local Tory Councillors plan to stand down at the next election, because they have realised it's just not their party any more. (I hope that's why, some are a bunch of time servers, but others are perfectly decent community minded people.)

Hasenstein · 16/02/2019 11:02

Re. WA vs No Deal

Even as an ardent Remainer, reality is now forcing me to confront the binary choice of WA vs ND, as I can't see any other alternative (PV, Revoke or anything else) being possible at this late stage. A short-term extension of A50 would be just useless temporising.

Looking at it selfishly, I'd prefer the WA, as this will give us time to sell the house and move back to Germany (DW is German and she and the DCs have dual nationality). We should have done this ages ago, of course, but never underestimate the power of inertia coupled with (blind) optimism. Anyway, we are where we are now.

We're reasonably financially secure (providing we continue to get our pensions abroad), certainly once we've sold the house, so I don't foresee any problems with German residence. The thought of uprooting after 40 years here is of course horrifying, not just the expense and sheer admin hassle of moving, but also the loss of friendships built up over the years. We know practically no-one in Germany any more.

My greatest worry is healthcare, as DW has had breast cancer (now thankfully recovered, thanks to the wonderful NHS) and I had a heart attack 8 years ago, so we've got a poor track record and private insurance may be prohibitively expensive. My general health has been deteriorating over the past couple of years (shamefully self-inflicted Blush) and I can definitely see me requiring medical assistance in the not too distant future. I hope I would be able to cope with the strains of moving, but it's far from certain.

Of course, in the event of No Deal it will be difficult, if not impossible, to sell the house for anything like a reasonable price, so we'd be stuck here for the foreseeable. And in that scenario, will the NHS function well enough to assure any medical help I may need, quite apart from my daily meds? Stockpiling is well advanced, thanks to advice on these threads, so I'm not too worried about short-term survival.

Putting all those considerations aside and ignoring my passionate Remainership, I guess the best thing for us would be the WA. I think either option is dreadful for the UK, but in the end my core loyalty is to my family.

And any attempts by Brexiteers to shift blame can fuck right off. I hold them (active pushers and passive drones alike) responsible for this unholy mess. I would always seek to forgive, but that first requires repentance, which seems to be in very short supply. The damage caused by their arrogance or ignorance makes my blood boil.

Sorry, rant over and back to semi-lurking.