Westminstenders: Competitive Stupidity

[RedToothBrush]

A week of wondering which MP is going to be the most dumb.

There is stiff competition between parties and remain / leave.

Expect incredible bids of ignorance and incompetence to curl your toes, with a bit of constitutional craziness thrown in for good measure.

Valentine's Day beckons...

... And so does the No Deal Divorce.

{What do you think dog should be paired with for the full Brexit Michelin Starred Experience?}
Just plenty of seasonal veg and UK potatoes of course.

Is that the white paper that clearly said this...

This appears to be the full 585 page text of the Brexit white paper. Found, in all places, on CNN. I hope the link works.

I don't think that's the 500 page white paper being talked about (if that's what you are posting that for). That's the draft agreement made in November, the WA in fact. The one being discussed and requested on here is a mysterious plan for how it was all going to work written by the government before the referendum. At least that was the original claim made on another brexit thread.

Lucy
I think that link is to the Withdrawal agreement
see also here
www.gov.uk/government/publications/withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration

so the Brexit White paper from 2017 is here
www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-and-new-partnership-with-the-european-union-white-paper
but only runs to 77 pages

This document predates the vote .... but its only 25 pages
www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-process-for-withdrawing-from-the-european-union

Maybe if you print it on A5 and made the font really, really big...

I am somewhat drug addled at the moment, but I really hope that wasn't the 500 page white paper I just shredded

The Withdrawal Agreement is 599 pages long (which is what the CNN link refers to). Here is the official link to it

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/759019/25NovemberAgreementonthewithdrawaloftheUnitedKingdomofGreatBritainandNorthernIrelandfromtheEuropeanUnionandtheEuropeanAtomicEnergyCommunity.pdf

It deals with the "divorce agreement": monies owed, transition arrangements to the end of 2020 and payment to be allowed de facto to stay in the SM during transition (with possibility of extension?). Plus that pesky legally binding and non-time limited backstop arrangement, to preserve the integrity of the GFA should a trade deal and frictionless arrangements and new still to be invented technology not be in place by the end of transition (to be in place until those things can be implemented).

There is an associated 29 page political declaration which is a wish list of aspirations as to how the UK and EU see the likely future relationship - but none of which is legally binding.

Neither. Of. These. Is. A. White. Paper.

If hauliers don't receive permits, how much business would they lose after Brexit - Is this just a small part of the business for most of them ?

If there weren't measures put in place then international hauliers would lose most of their business. However we'll still have access to the EU (albeit with some restrictions) until the end of the year without permits and I'm told there will be extra permits next year if we need them.

I forget the exact number of permits available because they're allocated by 2 or 3 different methods but it's something like 2,500 in total, not the 1,000-ish figure that's usually mentioned. That's the total number of UK trucks which would be able to operate on the continent at any one time. Similarly there would be fewer EU vehicles allowed here. There are around 20,000 permits available to EU member states altogether and many of those will be in use with hauliers on the periphery who regularly travel outside the EU.

Only 21 permits were issued in the UK last year - simply because we don't currently need them to do most of our deliveries. Most road transport from the UK stays in the EU, there are very few UK companies that move things by road to outside the EU using UK vehicles and drivers. I'd actually forgotten ECMT permits existed at all until about a year ago.

I wish I was drug addled :(

ohlook best not to do shredding while under the influence, also beware of dest she's after the good drugs

I'll take whatever you've got..

Channel 5 news special - 'No Deal - what does it mean?' on now.

@StepLadders007

To be clear...saying you voted to leave the EU because you're against globalisation is basically akin to someone a man obvs in the 19th Century voting against the UK using steam power and machinery because they're 'against the industrial revolution'.

Globalisation has already happened. It's a bit late to be against it now; and even if it wasn't it will continue to happen irrespective of the EU. The EU is not the cause of globalisation FFS.

All you've done is cast us, the UK, adrift as a small island that is cutting all of its ties in a globalised world so that our economy will tank.

And even if, if, which I highly doubt you're genuinely wedded to the idea of being against globalisation rather than it just being something you've heard and think sounded intelligent....Brexit won't deliver that to you.

Because the whole point of Brexit as far as Brexiteers in Parliament & Government are concerned is to have bigger and better unicorns trade deals with non-EU countries which logically can't happen. The fucking tag line to Brexit was about being Global Britain.

So how the fuck are you achieving being against Globalisation by supporting to leave the EU?

Just turned it on Maud

If you don't like globalisation, surely there's a good argument for staying in the EU because it is geographically closer to us - regionalisation instead of globalisation?

In addition, it will take, well, global efforts to reduce globalisation, which will be hindered by removing ourselves from international conversations?

I'll get my coat.

Does anyone else feel, as though the stars are aligning & no matter what is said or done or by whom, brexit without a deal is going to continue, I just can’t see anything being able to stop it, so sorry for the pessimism but I read so much over the weekend on how this is complete & utter madness & the U.K. is basically sleepwalking over a cliff edge, yet no seems to capable of stopping it I’m so weary & just feel defeated by it all.

Thanks, fish
Sounds like that NI haulier tweeting may just be one of the unlucky ones, but that overall there shouldn't be much effect ?

I'm wondering what the alternative to globalisation is?
Is it we have to all give up paid work and labour on farms again, circa feudal law?

The best bit of catching up was this beauty - the irony coming from a Brexiteer was rather amusing "This was described in 2017 by Duncan Robinson, the Brussels correspondent for the Financial Times, as the Greek fallacy — the false belief that a domestic vote somehow gives a national government a stronger negotiating position than before""

Melen The problem is that our PM and almost all her party keep pritoritising saving their party over saving the country
and the leader of the Opposition is gleefully watching, hoping to take over after No Deal chaos.

May agreed the Withdrawal Agreement and signed it, along with the other 27 EU heads of government.
Then to pacify her right wing nutters,
she whipped her MPs to vote against her own WA

May - and the UK - lost all remaining credibilty in Germany after that, probably in the rest of the EU and the world too.
Politicians and media here say now that the UK can't be trusted to keep its word

• hence even more reason for the backstop.

What country would bother negotiating with the UK, when the PM signs an agreement and then a few weeks later demands to renegotiate ..

Caught 5 mins of brexit on itv and then switch to channel 5 for 5 mins. Now the news is seriously starting to talk about no deal I feel, weirdly, better.

It's not hope that things will turn out fine but at least it's not creating a weird dissonance between reality, thoughts and the news.

Now it's
Mind: we might be fucked
Tv: we might be fucked
Reality: we might be fucked

There harmony there is sanity inducing

The more frictionless trade is at national borders, the more rules, regulations, standards etc have to be mutually agreed and applied within the participating countries.

Also, many EU regulations are in fact global regulations passed down from UN bodies etc.
What Richard North described very well as the "double coffin lid":
i.e. we leave the EU .... but find we still have to obey many of the regulations, because they are worldwide ones.

A reduction in excessive globalisation would involve supporting SMEs more over multinationals, and manufacturing more locally on smaller scales. It would involve things being more pricey, but hopefully better for the global environment.

BCF thank you, I think this is what I’m finding so hard to comprehend.
I have been extremely naive, I just kept thinking that surely the politicians would eventually put the country first , before the mad ideology of party but it’s slowly dawned on me they probably won’t.
So so stupid of me.

The ERG and Tory Brexiters want Globalisation on Steroids for the UK

they want to remove barriers to global competition

The Brexiters economist Prof Patrick Minford himself said that the hard Brexit he was advocating means global competition that would wipe out mass manufacturing and faarming in the UK

The ERG also want what they call a "Bonfire of Red Tape"

• i.e. the laws which currently protect UK workers, consumers & the environment -

because this would increase profits for businesses Certainly would hammer ordinary people, but would make the rich even richer

So any Brexiter against globalisation should be a hard Lexiter, wanting a Jeremy Corbyn led Brexit
Doesn't fit with linking to the neo-Nazi Breitbart though.