Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

Well that seems a good message to have got across. Well done.

No one I know is happy or complacent about this. Including most sane MPs. The problem is forcing a sane solution through: both parties are split and Corbyn is more useless than a wet paper bag whilst May is untouchable for the next year. Perhaps we need an 11th hour petition to the queen. I know HRM likes to be apolitical, but a unity government may be the only option that can muddle through now.

My deepest apologies to all Scottish and Irish folk watching this utter clusterfuck. Most of the English don't want it either.

I’ve never felt closer to my German Grandparents in my life. I’ve carried a deep sense of genetic guilt for what happened there and the one small thing that always gave me hope was that it was so beyond words awful that it would never happen again .

It is the feeling of utter uselessness and helplessness that gets me. We can all see what’s happening but what can we do that makes any difference? I really think we need a countrywide peaceful demonstration against no deal, people in every town and city out in the streets at the same time.

Not Just London but everywhere to give everyone who is against No Deal to get out and show that. My 85 year old neighbour voted Leave and really regrets it and I know she would jump at the chance to show her feelings now but is ill so can only get somewhere fairly local.

Not that I think it would make an difference but it can’t make things worse and it’s much harder for May to ignore (though she will) if the numbers are in the millions rather than hundreds of thousands. Gives everyone a chance then if travel not so much of an issue. We’ve got a couple of months left than that’s it. It’s beyond anyone’s worst nightmare that we are so close to 29th Match and nothing is agreed. We need to do something and soon, even if it’s with heavy hearts knowing it won’t do anything but we have to try. We will be judged by history and we owe it to our children and grandchildren. We can’t sit quietly for the next two months, we really can’t . People took to the streets for Poll tax, that looks positively desirable compared to what we’re facing and it’s not just that, it’s what Westminster has beome.

I need caffeine , apologies for early morning rant but i’ve woken up (thankfully slept) and the whole thing seems incredible, a fucking nightmare and completely surreal.

OMG is this true? The Seabourne freight millions contract, the Nissan millions bribe. These are just a couple of things the gov has actually managed to do and they're so flawed it's off the scale of incredulity.

Plenty of grounds there to Rant away PostNot. My rant peaks are always early morning and late evening. Then return to being a little more measured mid day.

I think more extreme ranting is needed from everyone - politicians and posters alike.

We recently had a planning issue with a neighbour who basically came up with an extreme absurd proposal which pissed off 10 neighbours. It's now resolved, but I noticed in the emails back and forth it was the neighbours who countered the extreme neighbour's comments with equally extreme exaggerated come backs who made more headway with him.

I have wondered if there's a Brexit analogy here. On a scale of 0 to 10 say the UKIP /ERG /Farage position is 0. What many remain MPs and protesters have done is to constantly restate a calm remain position at say number 5 on the extreme scale. This just doesn't work with the Brexiteers. I have wondered if there needs to be a more ranting and extreme remain position pulling towards at number 10 on the scale iyswim? It is only then it becomes possible to get the extreme right standpoint to shift. But perhaps it isn't possible at all anyway.

Agreed on the wind and solar farms. I adore seeing the turbines and my girls watch out for them (and pretend to blow the sails round). We also have solar farms nearby, which i won’t say I find beautiful, but they are certainly preferable to Drax power Station, and you have to keep an eye out for the sheep as they graze them on the same fields to keep the grass down.

Urg and gah. Ended up with 4 friends over and 3 kids. Going to get started on brekkie for them. Sorry for drunken posts. Recovering today.

Seabourne doesn't surprise me (again) and the initial media attention was meant to be a stunt that we would somehow pull it out of the bag. Seabourne may well become a good metaphor for Brexit - Gov gave it a chunk of money, it tried to copy and paste it's rules but was caught out and didn't even have the ships to make it viable.

lonelyandtired I enjoyed your drunk posts

Was Seabourne the company with ships? It's only natural grayling had to fuck that up. Just.... arrrrrrghhhh.

I presume that Thanet council postponed their vote while this decision was being made. I guess Ramsgate will probably close now. Who has been paying for the dredging?

^Was Seabourne the company with ships?
^
No it was the shipping company with no ships not even a dinghy. The gov did it's due diligence oh yes and awarded it a £14 million Brexit contract.

Except the gov checking didn't even notice it had cut and pasted a food delivery website’s terms and conditions.

And on we go over the cliff with expert politicians at the helm..

Just as well Ramsgate hadn't spent all that money on upgrading the harbour then

Omg I'm on my phone so can't link to it atm but I will.

Check out @chrismorrisbits and the Minister for Ships...

Will put a link up later if no one else has.

Chris Grayling thought it was a training video.

I think those cheery BeLeaver grins are getting a little more fixed as news like this comes in.

Danny Wallace @dannywallace
It's all the non-existent captains of the non-existent ferries I feel sorry for.

What is it actually going to take to wake people up?

I work in central London in a field full of highly-educated people in a company everybody on this thread would know. Yesterday I mentioned Brexit, and of the colleagues with me, one said they hadn't been paying attention recently and asked to be brought up to speed with what was happening, because they didn't know where we'd got to.

The other said 'won't we just end up remaining anyway?' And when I said 'no, there's no chance of that', looked perturbed and unsettled when I added that No Deal was increasingly seeming inevitable.

These are two intelligent, university-educated, articulate people and I'm 100% confident they will have voted Remain - I'd be astounded if anyone at my workplace didn't. But the level of dissociation I feel as I move around is terrifying. Shops bursting with luxury goods. The whole looming thing is like a waking nightmare.

Does this mean Grayling can go to Calais now?

What many remain MPs and protesters have done is to constantly restate a calm remain position at say number 5 on the extreme scale. This just doesn't work with the Brexiteers. I have wondered if there needs to be a more ranting and extreme remain position pulling towards at number 10 on the scale iyswim?

I think Lonely is already leading the way on this with her carefully thought through proposal for a temporary takeover of the government by the EU.

Mike Smithson @ mikesmithsonpb
From @DavidHerdson Punters could still be under-rating the chances of No Deal Chart of Betfair exchange odds from @betdatapolitics
www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/02/09/punters-could-still-be-under-rating-the-chances-of-no-deal/

@Cedilla , I have similar experiences. To go with the idiots who say "oh we should just leave". Like it's a bad meal at a restaurant or a shit film that can be dealt with by walking away.

Morning.

These are two intelligent, university-educated, articulate people and I'm 100% confident they will have voted Remain - I'd be astounded if anyone at my workplace didn't.

Cedilla - don't be so sure. I work in London in a department of a very well known company, with a very high % of oxbridge grads (maybe about 30%, rest all good degrees too), lots of international people (maybe about 30%), even the junior people are often well into six figure salaries, but I reckon they voted about 60/40 in favour of remain. Plenty of very well educated people voted Leave. You just can't tell until they tell you.

I'm not sure if this article has been posted before. It is about the launch of a rightwing American campaigning group in the UK that specifically targets university campuses. The bit that struck me was this:

"Turning Point began discussing a move into the UK last year, seeing the turmoil around Brexit as an ideal moment to launch a fightback against Labour’s dominance among young voters. (Brexit is “fundamental to the defence of Western society”, Kirk told the audience at the RAC.) "

I doubt this one will go all that far, but I think we can expect to see a lot more of these sorts of groups trying to move into the UK over the coming months.

www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/pro-trump-turning-point-loses-star-activists?origin=tub

P.S. for once I would say do read the comments. Some of them are quite amusing.

My main objection to wind turbines is the noise pollution. You can't sensibly live within at least half a mile of them in a 'domestic' setting.
The fact that you see so many that aren't turning at all, obviously creating no power, suggests the 'headline' figures that get posted are rarely met.
Solar PV, if the panels that look like roof tiles would be very practical on new builds and even upgrades. Lighting in the house by LEDS would be more efficient as I said yesterday. All of this technology exists now. Portable setups with a panel, LED lights and laptops rechargerd by solar are being used now in IIRC India or Pakistan for schoolkids that are working during the day.
The UK needs a 'killed by the king's horse' moment to shock it into real thought about what is happening. Jo Cox, RIP should have been a real focus, but at the time her campaign was slightly tangential to Brexit thus not quite a 'effect and cause' situation. It is of course absolutely appalling that it happened at all.

Cedilla - don't be so sure. I work in London in a department of a very well known company, with a very high % of oxbridge grads (maybe about 30%, rest all good degrees too), lots of international people (maybe about 30%), even the junior people are often well into six figure salaries, but I reckon they voted about 60/40 in favour of remain.

You reckon or you know? If so it wouldn’t be typical of that demographic ime.

In addition, I know 3 well educated people who voted Leave but they’re all 60+, two are 75+. And they did so for very naive reasons in isolation from the bigger picture.