Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

I think nuclear has to be in the mix for energy supplies. I’d like to see far more sustainable sources developed. There surely must be a place for tidal power on our sea-girt islands, if only there were proper investment in R&D.
But I can’t think of anything more foolish, at this particular moment, than floating the idea of burying nuclear waste in a part of NI that’s traditionally Nationalist, that was a hotbed of IRA activity, and is right on the border. You may as well paint a big bullseye on it and wait for the rocket launchers. Or drones, to be more up to date.

Yes, if nuclear power is part of our energy supply then there is no reason for NI in totality to be excluded from the management of its waste but right on the border doesn't seem the most sensible place.
Geology, Geography and politics always combine. That is why we have our current arrangements.

Wind power is already being well used in NI, so looks like they doing ok for investing in clean energy.

www.irishnews.com/business/2019/01/31/news/renewable-energy-now-accounts-for-36-per-cent-of-north-s-electricity-demand-1541125/

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/26/northern-irelands-onshore-wind-share-surges-past-uk-average/

Iceland has proposed a power interconnect, to make use of its plentiful hydroelectric and geothermal resources

I'm not an electrical engineer (5% of my studies) but I have a vague feeling that interconnects can't be that long before you start to have seriously eye-watering efficiency losses. It's why we can't put massive solar panels on the equator and power the globe.

....although, as it happens, I'm not totally against nuclear power either, while we continue to live our high-energy-usage lifestyles. I do however think that we need to be sensible about what we do with the waste - and putting it into a highly political and sensitive border zone is not being sensible

We return to the hammer/nail analogy. Current nuclear reactors are built around the Uranium cycle because historically we wanted the products for our nuclear weapons. There are other cycles. My DB is a big proponent of Thorium, and did some work for the US government as part of his original MSc on supercomputing support for nuclear science. However, he said that without a fucktonne of subsidy/investment, no one is going to seriously develop it - having had their fingers burned previously. The point being there's much less "waste" in the Thorium cycle that can be nasty for a long time ?

I think India are still quite keen on it ?

The issue with the LDs for me is not their anti-woman agenda, it's the anti-debate form it takes. Which is fundamentally illiberal and totalitarian in nature.

This has implications for safeguarding which I'm really not cool with; they have shown they are completely obvious to a lot of social issues. This has negative consequences to vulnerable groups which include people who identify as trans themselves. They aren't doing the people they say they sticking up for any favours by making out its a simple issue. It's a deeply complex and sensitive one which merits a debate which reflects that. Not just bloody sound bites.

I don't have much time for any politician who ultimately resorts to such propaganda devices these days. I respect those with different points of view provided they can actually articulate their opinion without resorting to personal attacks, party tribalism, or just made up bullshit. I don't have to agree with them, but if they are decent politicians they should be able to make me think and consider my own point of view and help me either be able to counter what they say or think, you know what I don't agree with everything you say but you've got a point on that particular part of the debate. We'd all be a lot better off as a result.

Being hard working for constituents us also incredibly important. There are certain politicians who have long standing reputations for being notoriously lazy and I think that's unforgivable tbh.

In terms of politicians I like, I am therefore not restricted to any particular party - there's good and bad in all parties.

It does make me curious as to which politicians Louise respects and likes and thinks are good at their jobs.

- that pharmaceutical guidance from the Government includes the really useful comments

If you’re a supplier of medical radio-isotopes, the government will consider how to support you in making arrangements to avoid any border delays that may arise.

and

DHSC has set up a working group to test and refine its contingency plans, and the mechanisms by which suppliers will interact with these processes.

...let alone any of the direct actions it recommends be taken (such as ensuring and taking the hit on cash flow of an additional stockpile of 6 weeks supplies and checking passport requirements in case employees need to travel)

Really fills me with confidence

Rather than simply attacking my comments, where is the forward thinking about where power is going to come from in the future?

But this story isn't about where the power is coming from. It's about where the waste is going afterwards. Nobody is saying no to nuclear. We're saying no to the British Government dumping nuclear waste on a separate landmass without proper regulations or consultation with the government of that landmass.

If it's safe to put it in NI then there will be somewhere equally suitable to put it on the Island of GB. As that is where the vast vast majority of UK citizens (and therefore UK energy users) reside - that is the appropriate place to put it.
And if the people of GB are not happy to have their own nuclear waste deposited here, then - yes - we will have to look at alternative sources of energy. We can't use nuclear under the assumption that the waste - and danger - can just be dumped on someone else far away.

I would think that much was obvious.

Louise - Trident subs are refitted in Plymouth, in the event of either an attack or an accident, it would make fcuk all difference.

Sarah Champion isn't even my MP but when i needed her advice regarding stuff that happened along time ago, she couldn't have been more helpful and understanding.

You don't know what she tried to do prior to any report but she and others kept it up in the news once the story went mainstream.

Perhaps judge the people who as you say, for years allowed this disgusting abuse to carry on, instead of the people who have tried to stop it?

We'll look back on 2000-2020 (well, our grandchildren will) and marvel at how sustainable energy got hijacked by the conmen so quickly. Set us back at least a generation.

You'r right DGR - there would be eye watering losses. But their energy is renewable, therefore in theory lower cost.

www.landsvirkjun.com/researchdevelopment/research/submarinecabletoeurope

www.atlanticsuperconnection.com/#about

But this story isn't about where the power is coming from. It's about where the waste is going afterwards.

Exactly.

Ireland, as a geographical mass is nuclear free. It would be unbelievably arrogant of the British govt to ride roughshod over that and use it as dumping ground anyway, just because they have jurisdiction over NI.

We shouldn't be building Nuclear power plants until we know how to safely and permanently dispose of waste products.

At the moment, it is just glorified Landfill, storing up awful problems for future generations.

If the Government concentrated on energy efficiency instead of more generation, we'd need less energy sources.
Of course that means either less profit companies or higher prices for us, so it doesn't happen or targets get scrapped.

{I would think that much was obvious.}
A lot of 'nimby ism' is the most obvious, together with the lack of joined up thinking.
Of course the siting of power stations is different to where the waste is to be put as the requirements are almost completely opposite.

@jasjas, re trident, they are indeed refitted in Plymouth, but I'd imagine the missiles stay at Coulport while this is happening.

FWIW I totally agree that if Scotland votes for independence and not to have nuclear weapons based in Scotland, that's what should happen.

I am merely pointing out the difficulty of achieving that and hypocrisy of people who cry "nuclear free Scotland!" but seemingly don't care a fig for the citizens of, for example, Plymouth.

Re Sarah Champion: that she didn't try to stop it is precisely my point, as stated MP for 2 years nearly before the Jay report was released.

You'r right DGR - there would be eye watering losses. But their energy is renewable, therefore in theory lower cost.

Not really sure that sits well with me ... "there's plenty of it, so we can afford to waste a bit"

Ultimately, as with everything, nature will decide for us. Good luck trying to game that one.

As things are, solar and wind are a crock - (but well done to the spivs who made their whack from them). Tidal sounds nice, but we have fuck all serious data on any effect it may have on the entire ecosystem of the ocean (you can't just extract Gigawatts a day, and not expect something to change).

Geothermal is probably the best bet. Reliable and renewable in one.

If we can find a way of cracking energy storage (see electric vehicles, smartphone batteries) then solar/wind can be revisited.

(Literal) blue-sky thinking might be to ring the equator with mirrored panels in space, and focus light onto a solar reactor en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower Although criss-crossing the globe with beams capable of incinerating a plane may not be so easy to implement.

Oh look...this from the Guardian live feed:

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/feb/08/second-referendum-necessary-if-no-brexit-agreement-says-john-mcdonnell-politics-live

"A new Brexit party, supported by Nigel Farage has been officially recognised by the Electoral Commission and is likely to win over thousands of Tory defectors, the Telegraph reports.

The party is called ...The Brexit Party. It says it will field candidates in England, Wales, Scotland and Europe.

The party leader is former Ukip candidate, Catherine Blaiklock, who the New European profiled her last month:

She is best-known for failing to win Great Yarmouth for UKIP in the 2017 general election despite an innovative campaign which saw her brandish a large photograph of her Jamaican husband at one hustings in an attempt to demonstrate that ’Kippers were not racist, later telling Vice “I sleep with somebody who is black.”

Her recent return to the limelight has provided equally startling quotes, with Blaiklock telling the Sun that “people feel treason has been committed” in the fight against Brexit ...

Blaiklock advised those on low income to heed the example of Sherpas in the Himalayas, who eat “practically nothing but boiled potatoes with a bit of salt and chilli on the side”.

The Telegraph says:

Farage, the former Ukip leader who is supporting the party, said “the engine is running” and he stood “ready for battle” to fight the Tories and Labour of the European Parliament elections are held.

As for useless MPs, well, there's Chope who has excelled himself again today.

leclerc not for the first time, your attitude disgusts me.

Britain either needs to find a way to deal with their own nuclear waste or strike a deal with a nation who is capable of dealing with it. What they must not do is dump it on a nuclear free landmass just because they CURRENTLY happen to occupy the very top corner.

That nuclear waste will probably still be dangerous long after NI has left the UK.
And what exactly is the plan when Ireland does reunite and Britain no longer has the right to march in and dump whatever shit they fancy in the six counties? Maybe we can dump it on Gibraltar instead ...

Personally - I agree with you DGR . Which was why for quite a while I was involved with exploring how to encourage data centres to set up in Iceland to make use of their low cost, renewable energy in a cool climate. More energy efficient than transporting the energy here , especially for uses where latency is not an issue, such as data storage and back-up. But I was aware that there had been further discussions about the energy interconnect, which was relevant to the discussion on nuclear power.

At least there isn't waste with geothermal power (unless you count the Blue Lagoon ) - and apparently global warming is increasing the hydroelectric output ()

Delurking as just read the news on new Brexit party and head is completely scrambled, so much so that somewhere I think it might a good thing, to split the Tory vote.
That I could ever think a new right wing nut job party could be a good thing scrambled my head even more. There are no words left to express the “what the actual fuck”ness of what is happening in this country. So depressed.

Thank you all for these threads, they are invaluable to me at the moment.

Did anyone catch the ever-watchable Jim al-Khalili on Sellafield:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b065x080

?

Quite an eye-opener about the dangers - and longevity - of our existing nuclear legacy. Let alone any more (although AIUI it's not quite so bad these days ) .

TL;DR - they had to rush to rebuild the storage tanks for the spent fuel waste. The current design life for the new tanks is about 100 years, after which ... guess what ?

That said, the blue is a beautiful colour

To prove my dedication to nuclear power, I've got a nuclear light on my keyring. It's glowed for the past 6 years and should carry on for at least another 4.

Louise - the missiles are the safest bit.

My point is that its irrelevant where subs or any other nuclear power plant is located, the damage through attack or accident destroys huge areas.

I would imagine the British will try to dump waste in Ni so that the ROI doesn't want unification? or is that being cynical?

As for S.Champion, neither you nor i know what she did or didn't do, i can only speak from experience of having had dealings with her.... MPs are not gods or perfect and the authorities in Rotherham made investigating what was going on extremely difficult.

{leclerc not for the first time, your attitude disgusts me. }
17.4 Million disgust me so I am not bothered by one more.

Scanning rather than reading, but would recommend Octopus as a renewable energy supplier - cut my bills drastically from SSE ones.

Will try to come back and read comments on energy (and Raving Loony Brexiteers Party) later, but am intending to be frazzled by wine shortly...

Delurking as just read the news on new Brexit party and head is completely scrambled, so much so that somewhere I think it might a good thing, to split the Tory vote.

When there is a vote. Being snippy, if it's in 2022, a lot of the Brexit party members might be dead ....

Will it also pull away Labour voters ?