Is this the start of the civil war?

[Backwoodsgirl]

Looking through these threads we have lots of scared people prepping for the ever increasingly likely No Deal scenario. There is a lot anger, towards remainers and anger towards the government, who quite honestly I wouldn’t trust to look after a cannon ball.

As things disintegrate over the coming days, Are we actually watching the start of the next civil war? I admit without weapons and the depressed nature of British people it will be a crap civil war but non the less violence will happen.

Immingham Rotterdam is the same sort of cost, time and frequency.

A lot of the freight on these longer crossings is dropped trailers (loaded artic trailers left at the port for onward travel). You can virtually regard them as containers on wheels when it comes to how they're dealt with. Also, all RO-RO vessels aren't necessarily what you'd think of as 'ferries'. It literally only describes the method of loading. A RO-RO freighter might carry a mixed load of unaccompanied trailers, new cars, tractors, large machinery and the sort of stuff you see on 'wide loads' on the motorway.

FishesaPlenty
Perhaps you ought to fire off some emails to the ports trying to pinch business from Dover - and point out the errors in their business plans.

Fishes is not saying that other ports cannot expand, but that they cannot replace the enormous volumes that can be shipped via Dover-Calais, for the complete obvious reason that ferries on long sea crossings can do fewer crossings per day (quite apart from any other issues, such as road network and port infrastructure).

It's not possible to replace Dover-Calais/Dover-Folkestone with other routes - or not quickly. This sort of fundamental change in business model might be possible in 5-10 years with appropriate investment, but even then it might not make much economic sense, because you can't really argue with geography.

because you can't really argue with geography.

I bet some people would have a bloody good try though!

I'm sure they know what they can and can't do Clavinova, they don't need me to tell them. I was explaining the situation to the people who think that it's just a matter of diverting the freight from one port to another.

Here's that graphic again. It shows the actual number of lorries using each port in a year.

Felixstowe: 8,311
Hull: 66,264
Grimsby & Immingham: 87,287
Harwich: 180,163
Channel Tunnel: 1,641,638
Dover: 2,564,994

That's 350k lorries a year using all the east coast ports combines, compared with 4.3m using the Kent routes. If the Kent routes are reduced to 15% of their current capacity that's 3.7m extra vehicles which would have to divert to the east coast ports, increasing their lorry volumes by over 1000% and needing at least 40 new ferries to keep up with the flow.

Having said that, there really is a lot of stuff which isn't urgent at all and could be routed by other means. There's also a lot of stuff which travels backwards and forwards just because it's easy. Once it becomes more difficult or expensive to do things one way then business always finds another way of doing it.

Arkos

People will find weapons. Guns will make it into the country if that’s the way things went.

the Tories would love a civil war, let the little people turn on each other and forget who really caused all this

twofingerstoEverything
Don't forget the murder of Jo Cox.

Yes, sorry for the omission.

@Arkos you need a spear and short sword.

What are you doing in this section, there is AIBU

We have had a recent war in the U.K. with typical understatement, it was called The Troubles.
Almost 4000 people died any many more were injured.

Only 30% of our food comes from the EU...doesn't it

This is a misunderstood statistic. Yes, but only 50% comes from the UK. And these are year round figures. At certain times of the year (not now) we produce more than 50% and at this time of the year we produce much less than 50%. If by "produce" you mean available to eat (which I think most people would imagine it means).

These are the DEFRA most recently approved figures

Region Percentage supplied to the UK
UK 50%
EU 30%
Africa 4%
North America 4%
South America 4%
Asia 4%
Rest of Europe 2%
Australasia 1%

If there is enough stock of Tetley's and Digestives, then no, I can't see a civil war breaking out.

I don't think there will be a civil war either. I do think that if there is a serious economic downturn (which I think is likely) then there are lots of people who are used to getting everything they want immediately and who will kick off before finally settling into the sad realisation that we've completely fucked up something that was working relatively well and which gave us a good standard of living in the world.

I definitely think that this is the beginning of a dark period of history.
I agree. But we voted for this whole mess.

There are obviously a few funded extreme 'Leave means Leave' fascist right thugs who are abusive and violent. Their strategy is being managed and funded, clearly. Their vile behaviour has been groomed for decades by the press and the hostile environment policy of the government. They know not what they do.

What's interesting is that the majority of the country wants to remain in the EU, the majority of the country is peaceful, the majority of the country wants no part in this nasty little episode.

Most of that majority don't also believe how cynically and deliberately the Tory Brexiters and some Labour brexiters are hiding behind this minority of thugs to push through the totalitarianism at the heart of brexit.

It's not civil war that I fear, but the apathy which enables extremists to get power.

At this point, I am not sure how the peaceful majority asserts itself. Few if any of our current politicians and fewer of the peaceful majority have a clue this is happening, or what to do about it.

Which suits the authoritarians, of course.

we voted for this whole mess

Voting is no crime. Lying to the voters and disallowing 5million British voters, and 'losing' 1 million completed vote slips is though.

I voted Labour in 1997. There was a 3 term landslide. Imagine if we said: 'You lost, get over it', to the tories and abandoned any further elections.

It would have created a one party state.

That's what the daft old referendum did.

No voter's fault at all.

Actually, I do know how it could be solved:

If Peace broke out, and we figured out, in parliament and in ordinary life how to figure out a sensible compromise which the EU27 and most people could live with.

A democracy always serves those who 'win' and 'lose' votes.