Is this the start of the civil war?

[Backwoodsgirl]

Looking through these threads we have lots of scared people prepping for the ever increasingly likely No Deal scenario. There is a lot anger, towards remainers and anger towards the government, who quite honestly I wouldn’t trust to look after a cannon ball.

As things disintegrate over the coming days, Are we actually watching the start of the next civil war? I admit without weapons and the depressed nature of British people it will be a crap civil war but non the less violence will happen.

But if the ports aren't yet set up to take the ships - still dredging, I understand. And the customs infrastructure isn't there yet, how does this happen on March 30?

Stuff doesn't just "pop over" to another port. That's not how it works. There are pilots to organise and schedule for example. If it's a new port, no sensible captain will just chug into a port without a local pilot.

Honestly I think you should change your name to contrary Mary.

No matter what solution anyone proposes up you pop to say it can't be done.

How do you know what can and can't be done? We don't only have 1 port for all imports into the UK.

It’s not realistic to think police and army would be able to stamp out rioting on the scale it could happen. To start with, there are far too few of them. And the army have stockpiled food to feed soldiers, but the police haven’t. It will probably be their own families, friends and neighbours in those queues around lorries. That’s when civil disorder starts to really break down, because some of those police officers won’t be prepared to stop their brother or their daughter getting the food in the riot. So it won’t be clear who is doing what and violence will spread.

There will probably be protests against martial law, probably driven from the left, and counter protests from the violent far right. And what’s Corbyn going to be saying in parliament when momentum members are getting beaten up by Tommy Robinson and his mates on TV? It’s not going to be a government of national unity. How about when John McDonnell gets hit in the face by a police officer while on a protest march? Once discipline in the police breaks down and national politicians get involved, that’s the start of civil war.

It almost certainly won’t get that far because a deal will be agreed quite shortly after we crash out with no deal.

@Weetabixandshreddies , if you just fire off ill considered solutions what do you expect.

@bellinisurge

Because unless you are very senior in the UK government you really do not know enough to be able to confidently nay say every option.

You cannot say that there are no other ports in the entire UK capable of receiving imports yet you seem very happy to do so.

I suspect it’s import experts who know how likely it is that we will be able to divert things to other ports. And they say only a very minimal amount will be diverted. Why do you think the government is planning to turn Kent’s motorways into a massive traffic jam? It’s not because they’re against imports going through Hull.

In 2012 this report wasn’t optimistic about finding the extra port capacity, and nothing much has changed since then
randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=10395_Annex03_Dover_final.pdf

Dredging at Ramsgate widely reported.
I know about using pilots to bring in ships because I've been on them.

Problem with ever single technical solution to N Ireland border also widely reported. I sat through a select committee on it. On YouTube. Which is a popular platform, I understand.

Problem with ever single technical solution to N Ireland border also widely reported.

But what problems? Other than "we don't want it"?

Problems outlined here by well informed people (experts)
www.wired.co.uk/article/irish-border-brexit-tech
thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/10/02/no-blockchain-cant-solve-the-irish-border-problem/
www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/post-brexit-tech-border-deemed-complete-nonsense-by-it-experts-1.3188475

Well Im not sure why you think the food from elsewhere won't be affected by supply chain issues etc? It doesn't get teleported into the country.

Neither does it arrive through the Channel ports on the back of a lorry.

Any potential delays will be caused to lorries arriving at the Channel ports for their normal short hop over the channel. Goods which arrive from outside Europe arrive by air, containerised and bulk freight at ports which are used to dealing with non-EU customs clearances. They'll only be impacted by any switching of non-urgent EU freight from the Kent-France routes and that will cause minimal problems compared with the massive potential for problems at Dover.

No - it comes into main ports such as Rotterdam. generally that is where it goes through customs checks because that's where it hits its destination (a european country) and it then comes on to the UK where it docks and no customs checks are needed.

if we are not part of the EU then at Rotterdam it doesn't go through customs checks because it hasn't hit its destination. it comes on to the UK where it hits the destination and will then need to go through customs checks.

There are various posters on MN who either work or have worked in customs and have explained all of this in detail.

If there are hold ups at the channel ports you simply divert boats from elsewhere to other ports. That cannot be impossible to organise.

Impossible ? possibly not if you have the time and money to completely overhaul the UK's current port system/ supply chain network.

57 days to go. Tick tock.

No - it comes into main ports such as Rotterdam. generally that is where it goes through customs checks because that's where it hits its destination (a european country) and it then comes on to the UK where it docks and no customs checks are needed.

I don't know what it specifically is but I can assure you that most food shipped into the UK from outside the EU doesn't go near Rotterdam. What is this obsession with thinking that everything goes through Rotterdam? What do you think our container ports handle, just containers from Rotterdam?

Apart from any other consideration, I believe that anything customs-cleared in Rotterdam would be included in our 'food from the EU' statistic, not the 'food from the rest of the world'. Once it's actually cleared customs in the EU then it's in EU free circulation and any further movement between EU members is classed as intra-EU trade.

Not to mention the fact that shipping a container from China to Rotterdam by sea is similarly priced to shipping it to the UK but re-shipping that container by road from Rotterdam to the UK costs more than shipping it by sea from China.

Ships don't just divert course lol.

For example, one of the big banana boats does a series of collections around Latin America and the Carribean and then delivers to Cork, Tilbury, Rotterdam and Bremerhaven.

publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeucom/129/129.pdf

Yes I am very scared. I’ve got young children and I worry about it all the time.

Ships don't just divert course lol.

I assume the PP meant change timetables and move the ferries onto other routes, rather than divert them mid-journey.

The problem with that being that if the goods are time-sensitive enough that they need to be going by road to start with then there aren't really any routes which are short/quick enough to replace Kent-Calais - although there are probably some routes which could better the time of a Kent-Calais crossing that included a 2 day wait!

I feel that if Labour had a decent leader in power (and one who wasn’t a ‘leaver’) then we wouldn’t be hurtling toward a no-deal Brexit. There is no opposition. If I could vote the Lib Dem’s in tomorrow I would but it’s just not going to happen.

Surely though southernetter Tories are more to blame for hurtling us towards a no-deal Brexit in the first place, regardless of opposition..

Graphics to underline the difference between how EU and non-EU freight gets to us.

Non-eu freight (aside from bulk freight like coal, iron ore, some grain, wood, etc.) is 99% containers. EU (non-bulk) freight is 45% lorries on ferries and 24% unaccompanied trailers on ferries.

@FishesaPlenty , I think that poster actually meant diverting mid course. Like satnav telling you mid journey that it's quicker if you go a slightly different route. Lol.
But, of course I may be wrong.