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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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GhostofFrankGrimes · 29/01/2019 21:59

I can’t see any way back now for the WA.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 29/01/2019 22:02

bellini Grin DH and I were talking about Passport to Pimlico today!

I was thinking our town - leave constituency but a pretty strong Remainy feel in the town itself - could join France. You only have to go a few miles up the road and the mobile phone signal tells you you’re in France anyway. Which actually makes me feel a bit sad. So close but so far...

MissMalice · 29/01/2019 22:02

Here’s my prediction.
WA fails. May accepts it’s never going to work.
Votes are put forward for no Brexit or no deal. The HoC votes 52:48 for no Brexit and spends the next 5 years healing the country.
Halo

Apileofballyhoo · 29/01/2019 22:02

MissMalice

No Deal - destroys the country
No Brexit - results in right wing rioting
WA - painted as a betrayal/BINO and results in right wing rioting

No Deal also results in right wing rioting.

Quietrebel · 29/01/2019 22:08

Oh dear... I'm away for one day (just started new job) and it's all kicking off.
First time I've heard someone who's not a close friend (new colleague) openly discuss stockpiling as a fact of life.
Shit has hit the fan.

Apileofballyhoo · 29/01/2019 22:10

So if I were JC I'd go to Theresa and offer Labour support for a WA with a permanent CU.

If she accepts, we all avoid no deal and are a bit happier, except the ERG and possibly the Tory party.

If she says no (which she will) because of the ERG and the Tory party etc etc - it'll be completely clear that it's all the Tories' fault as Labour offered their support.

Ta1kinPeace · 29/01/2019 22:11

Have not RTFT
WHAT DO THE ERG WANT CHANGED exactly IN THE BACKSTOP?

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 29/01/2019 22:11

Is a people’s vote completely off the table? It was discussed endlessly about a week or two ago but it’s gone really quiet.

Surely today’s voting illustrates parliament has no clue what it wants.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 22:12

We had potential buyers for our house recently who say if you will cut X (ridiculous amount) off the price of your house we will consider a second viewing. It was an offer but not a proper one.

We told them to do one, on principle. In theory we could accept less in the future but only if the rest of the market drops. And the sheer cheek of the offer made us go 'no effing way'. We know that if we'd said yeah ok, if this couple didn't go for it in the end, the estate agent would be on our case to sell for less immediately rather than to wait it out.

We were most pissed off at their nerve. We will drop the price in time, depending on events and market conditions, but pointless to do much now unless desparate.

Are the EU desparate? And have the UK pissed them off? And can they afford to wait?

Then flip it for the UK.

Who will blink....

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MissMalice · 29/01/2019 22:13

WHAT DO THE ERG WANT CHANGED exactly IN THE BACKSTOP?

They don’t want a backstop at all. They want to be able to unilaterally withdraw from the backstop. Or more accurately - they want a no deal Brexit and this squabbling allows them to crash us out.

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 22:14

US Rep Brendan Boyle

@RepBrendanBoyle
'After agreeing to the Irish backstop, Theresa May’s government has now reneged on it. Why would anyone negotiate with her now? #Brexit'

mmm hmm.

TokyoSushi · 29/01/2019 22:15

Hmmm Katya Adler seems to be suggesting on BBC news at 10 that there's a glimmer that the EU might eventually budge on the backstop.

I'm not sure where that leaves Ireland..

MissMalice · 29/01/2019 22:15

What makes her think that Tokyo?

LittleSpace · 29/01/2019 22:17

Perhaps I am in the fairy tale 'The Emperor's New Clothes'.

I feel like the child saying 'but she has nothing on!'

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 22:17

I was wondering if US politicians / the powerful Irish American lobby would start getty antsy

If it's No Deal, I don't fancy the chances of a UK-US trade deal getting through Congress
At least not without them demanding an NI-only backstop !

RosaPalma · 29/01/2019 22:18

US Congressman just tweeted:
"After agreeing to the Irish backstop, Theresa May’s government has now reneged on it. Why would anyone negotiate with her now? #Brexit"

twitter.com/RepBrendanBoyle/status/1090351323550236675?s=19

LadyGregorysToothbrush · 29/01/2019 22:19

That’s Katya Adler’s own gloss for British consumption. It’s just feeding the communal delusions that are wrecking this country.

godeeva · 29/01/2019 22:19

Brexit was never the will of the people. 17,410,742 out of 46,501,241 voters picked leave. That is nowhere near half the voting populace, let alone half of the country. Today the Tory party re-I forced their image as undemocratic, disconnected ideology driven businesspeople who don't give a toss about the national good.
I cannot trust this crop of incompetents with my children's future. Time to join the HoC circus. Even if I don't get elected or no one listens - at least I am doing something.

Focalpoint · 29/01/2019 22:20

So if the EU say no and TM keeps running down the clock at the last and final meaningful vote - what will most Labour MPs do? Surely it will be WA at the end of it all.

RosaPalma · 29/01/2019 22:20

Scamdooiso sorry thread moving so fast o didn't see your post when posting mine

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 22:20

The Grand National the week after Brexit will be 'interesting' at this rate.

Saw posters up in Liverpool today and though 'oh, hows thats going to work in No Deal?'

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 22:22

The EU would only budge if Ireland does
and Ireland only would if the Uk gives them something they want

V unlikely as what could compensate for the border we know the UK will put up the minute transition ends

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 22:22

Katya Adler is just being...... BBC.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 22:22

^www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47036119^
US firms seek changes to UK standards on beef and drugs

shudder

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Ta1kinPeace · 29/01/2019 22:23

ITN News
they have no effing idea what they do want
just what they do not
SELFISH BASTARDS

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