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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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Tanith · 29/01/2019 20:54

They're going to recess from 14th until 25th February. 11 days: that's longer than they give the kids for half term.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:55

Well, sounds like the EU is figuring out what all the HoC votes meant too !

Ian Wishart European Government Reporter IanWishart^

First response from EU President Donald Tusk via his spokesman:

"We welcome and share the UK Parliament's ambition to avoid a no-deal scenario.
We continue to urge the U.K. government to clarify its intentions with respect to its next steps as soon as possible."

DangermousesSidekick · 29/01/2019 20:55

Other achievements tonight are the first signs of what negotiations with the EU look like from outside the EU, when you have no say inside it. EU says x, Britain says oh but we want to think about that, EU says, no, x goes.

Also the markets sinking.

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 20:55

Fuck me. In ten years time, there'll be no UK, no functioning society, nothing but wasteland...........and Chris fucking Grayling.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:56

Figures for the one I got wrong are Reeves.

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Ellie56 · 29/01/2019 20:56

I'm losing the will to live here. What was actually agreed if anything?

Lottapianos · 29/01/2019 20:57

'Grayling on Sky saying 'I think it's been a good night, TM has a clear mandate to go back to Brussels and reopen the discussions''

Dear fucking god. Have they all had some kind of terrible joint lobotomy or something?

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 20:57

How is Sterling pound doing now?

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 20:57

Am I right in thinking that basically all we’ve achieved tonight is figured out that there’s a slight majority for no deal but no majority for anything else?

That's how I've read it.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:57

Failing Grayling ?
Hopefully May never takes his opinion seriously

Question is if the EU issue a statement beforehand saying No

or invite her over, let her fly around to all the capitals, then say No

DangermousesSidekick · 29/01/2019 20:57

Scandaloso, and BoJo and Cameron and Farage et al all making millions on lecture circuits in the US. Let's not forget that. Bastards.

SillySallySingsSongs · 29/01/2019 20:57

Of course Labour, under Corbyn, aren’t better,Sally. But this particular clusterfuck almost completely at the feet of the Tory party.

As I said neither party comes out of this looking good.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 20:57

They agreed that we are going to stamp our feet and demand chocolate for breakfast.

SusanWalker · 29/01/2019 20:58

Great sympathy for ireland in Germany too - people seem to understand the backstop better in Germany than in UK

Well they know what it's like to have a country torn in two.

weasle · 29/01/2019 20:58

Delurking to express my despair.

I work in the NHS. We are completely fucked. There will be an exodus of staff. Shortage of medicines and equipment. I bet even sutures are a JIT overseas supply chain.

My poor children. I wish we'd moved to Australia or NZ earlier on when easier to move them from schools and friends.

I'm embarrassed to be British, a country who voted for this.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:58

Nick Robinson @bbcnickrobinson
Good news for May : she is now able to say to EU “drop backstop & I’ll get a deal”. Bad news for May : EU may reply “MPs voted against No Deal & voted for what they don’t want & not what they do”

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SillySallySingsSongs · 29/01/2019 20:59

They're going to recess from 14th until 25th February. 11 days: that's longer than they give the kids for half term.

It is extremly likely it will be cancelled as the next vote is during that time.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 29/01/2019 20:59

BadKitten

Well, for everyone’s sake I’m hoping what happens next is that I wake up and say to DH, ‘I’ve just had the most terrible dream. There was a referendum and the U.K. voted to leave the EU and then...etc’

Of course the downside for everyone else would be that you are all figments of my imagination.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 20:59

A desperate plea to all ex-pats and those from the RoI on this thread...

Please make clear to everyone you meet that there are English people who aren't completely batshit crazy and stuck somewhere between the Victorian times and the 1950s.

My fear is that all they see of us is the likes of JRM, BoJo, TM, Mark Francois and others of the same ilk Sad

I say English rather than British because Scotland has some sensible people in the limelight. We do not.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:59

but, sally only 1 party caused all this

Big difference to being a gormless spectator at an accident, taking selfies and not helping anyone
and being the drunken swine who ran over the UK

WifeofDarth · 29/01/2019 21:00

Very belated PMK.
I feel that I should confess that despite being an avid follower of the threads I still don't understand what's going on. But it doesn't feel right.
Thanks to Red et al for keeping this going.

derxa · 29/01/2019 21:00

Corbyn The Missing Man

SillySallySingsSongs · 29/01/2019 21:01

but,sallyonly 1 party caused all this

We will have to agree to disagree. There is plenty Labour could have done. They chose not to/flip flopped etc

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 21:01

Harry Cole@mrharrycole
Senior ERG figure: when she listens to us there is a majority.

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nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 21:01

Look, the bottom line is that UK totally expects the EU to blink and renegociate. They expect that and that is what they think will happen now.

Does anyone else think this will be the outcome?

I am getting nervous now that the EU may just cave in. But the backstop is the BIG issue isn't it?

I hope they stick with the backstop. UK is not to be trusted anymore, sorry.