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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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19
SillySallySingsSongs · 29/01/2019 20:46

Corbyn now saying he is prepared to meet her. The man is a prat.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/01/2019 20:46

L
Tim Shipman
@Shippers inbound
Theresa May might be marching to Brussels astride two unicorns stapled together but it’s the most robust form of transport she has had for a while

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:46

Bludgeon him with a 4-pack of tinned beans, RTB - it would be a kindness!

then I really would starve.

He's be dead and I'd have 4 tins less of baked beans.

Which of these will be more important in the future, I'm not entirely sure

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:46

Yep, I reluctantly agreed voting down the WA the first time might give us a chance of something better.

Now we've seen what a bunch of fucking useless careerists are in the HoC, that clearly won't take charge of anything

So the best outcome now is that May brings her WA back - unchanged - late Feb / early March and it passes.

Then hope the margin is big enough that the EU believe we can pass the necessary following legislation and extend for a couple of months to allow this.

Forget Revoke
Any Remain Ultras after this debacle who are still against the WA - with its possibilities of a permanent SM / CU - are just letting the ERG walk us into No Deal.

mrslaughan · 29/01/2019 20:46

Tokyosushi - they have been saying that all day!

GhostofFrankGrimes · 29/01/2019 20:46

Back peddling to the WA is going to look super humiliating now isn’t it?

SillySallySingsSongs · 29/01/2019 20:47

I think they already didTokyo

They kind of did but didn't.

Buteo · 29/01/2019 20:47

So we've spent two weeks making a papier mache unicorn to take back to the EU.

But it's the best unicorn!

But is it strong and stable?

derxa · 29/01/2019 20:47

Gawn yersel Ian

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 20:48

It is a very difficult outcome for uk AND ROI and I don't care if anyone disagrees with me on that.

There are probably dissidents just salivating at the thought of a hard border "Imposed" on them by toffs in Westminster who really didn't realise NI existed for a long time since GFA brought peace.

Anyway, the only consolation I get from all this, is that we are actually living through future history analyses.

So sad for UK now, and for ROI too.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:48

Frank You haven't found the last 2 years of the uk negotiating with itself humiliating ?

Whisky2014 · 29/01/2019 20:48

Good man ian

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/01/2019 20:49

BREAKING from Donald Tusk spokesman: “Withdrawal agreement is & remains the best and only way to ensure an orderly withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union. The backstop is part of the Withdrawal Agreement & the Withdrawal Agreement is not open for re-negotiation”

Apileofballyhoo · 29/01/2019 20:49

I might just hit the booze. Haven't had a drink since early November but this is just so shit. I just want NI to be ok and the UK not to turn fascist. Is that really too much to ask?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/01/2019 20:49

More from Tusk spokesman:

“If the UK's intentions for the future partnership were to evolve, the EU would be prepared to reconsider its offer and adjust the content and the level of ambition of the political declaration, whilst respecting its established principles.”

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/01/2019 20:50

Faisal Islam
@faisalislam
NEW: Tusk spokesman - “Withdrawal Agreement is not open for renegotiation”

Coordinated with EU capitals

Brussels sources: No summit, no new mandates

Crimson72 · 29/01/2019 20:50

So what the hell happens next?

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:50

For Spelman
Labour 224
SNP 35
LD 11
Plaid 4
Con 12 (Bebb, Boles, Clarke, Djanogly, Greening, Grieve, Gyimah, Lee, Letwin, Sandbach, Soubry, Wollaston)
Indy 3
Green 1

Against
Con 296
Lab 13 Austin, Barron, Campbell, Cooper (rosie), Fitzpatrick, Flint, Godsiff, Hepburn, Hoey, Mann, Smith (laura), Snell, Stringer
indy 3
DUP 10

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Hazardswans · 29/01/2019 20:51

Has the paper mache unicorn been very clear as well?

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:52

Sorry thats wrong!

Spelman should read
Labour 245
SNP 35
Indy 5
LD 11
Plaid 17
Green 1

Against
Con 295
DUP 10
Lab 3
Indy 2

My mistake

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TokyoSushi · 29/01/2019 20:52

Ah, I see Donald Tusk's just said it again! Argh!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/01/2019 20:52

Tusk adds: "We will continue our preparations for all outcomes, including a no-deal scenario. We will also continue the EU´s process of ratification of the agreement reached with the UK Government."

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 29/01/2019 20:53

Of course Labour, under Corbyn, aren’t better, Sally. But this particular clusterfuck almost completely at the feet of the Tory party.

Am I right in thinking that basically all we’ve achieved tonight is figured out that there’s a slight majority for no deal but no majority for anything else? (i’m not counting unicorns as a valid option)

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 20:53

what does happen next?

TokyoSushi · 29/01/2019 20:53

Grayling on Sky saying 'I think it's been a good night, TM has a clear mandate to go back to Brussels and reopen the discussions'

Do they really not know that they've said no?? Maybe I'm the thick one?

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