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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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Thread gallery
19
RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:27

I need a rolling ticker in my room!

I'm trying!

Amendment O
Ayes 39 Nos 327

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Apileofballyhoo · 29/01/2019 19:27

So far - and I hope forever - they won't bully Ireland into submission as the price of the EU's continued trade with the UK

Big choc I think any division in the EU about this could lead to the break up of the EU as quickly as dividing the four freedoms. We're either all in it together or we're not.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 19:27

and it's snowing too. Too much to think about, and I don't want to go back to work.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 19:27

Thanks RTB!

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:28

G. Dominic Grieve amendment
This idea by the former attorney general would allow parliament to take control in creating a series of indicative votes by decreeing that a motion put forward by a minority of 300 MPs from at least five parties – including 10 Tory MPs – would be debated as the first item for MPs in the Commons the next day.

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Whisky2014 · 29/01/2019 19:28

Can someonw tell me why that amendment would not be passed?

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 19:29

It's like purgatory. Will we be sitting in her in five years time, May still the PM, WA amendments being voted on, in perpetuity?

Destiel · 29/01/2019 19:29

So...same shit, different day?

Apileofballyhoo · 29/01/2019 19:29

This is so fucking stressful.

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 19:30

Bad news for Cooper/Boles. I'm told around 30 Labour MPs will either abstain or vote against it, some on the frontbench.

Bad cess to them all.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:30

John Rentoul @JohnRentoul
If 15 Tory MPs vote against Brady amendment, it will fall. I assume all other Tories will vote for it, +10 DUP & 6 Lab, so if 15 ERG + pro-EU Con MPs vote against, it loses

15 is in the range of viability, though some of the Soft Tories HAVE said they will support it which limits it a bit.

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:31

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
A senior Brexiteer on May’s change of heart. “She’s finally realised the only votes that can get her through are on her side and everyone else just wants to destroy her” #brexitcrisis

FFS.

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PerverseConverse · 29/01/2019 19:32

Is there any point to all this voting? Seems TM will do what she wants and stick two fingers up to anyone who dares speak up against her

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 19:32

Isabelle Oakshott on Sky News just said that there is a shift towards No Deal and it's much more "palatable"

sums up the problem with the British media. that the opinions of people like Oakshott, a lobbyist for a right win tax dodger, is given credence.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/01/2019 19:33

She's not a very sharp cookie at times, is she Hmm

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 19:33

I'm off to Google Isabelle Oakshott, I have no idea who she is...

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:34

And in response to the Beth Rigby Tweet (and retweeted by David Allen Green)

Joel Taylor @JoelTaylorhack
Except, as EU will reject May's attempts to reopen Withdrawal Agreement, she is likely to present her deal to the Commons again with no changes of significance. And Brexiteers are likely to vote it down again.

The only deal that can get through needs crossparty support

#Brexit

A deal getting through parliament AND being acceptable to the EU is impossible isn't it?

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:34

lonely I agree since brexit is 100% a Tory creation, for party political reasons only, from the idea to the execution
You Brexit, you Fix It

Damaging the UK for decades for party politicl reasons means the party should be killed
permanently

That means giving them enough rope

Corbyn will probably quit in a couple of years and we don't know if his successor will be moderate or not
but
even if we then get 20 years of a genuinely hard left govt, it would be the fault of those Tories who tolerated and voted for the clearly batshit & disfunctional hard right

There weren't enough batshitters alone, for this to happen
They had to be enabled.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/01/2019 19:34

Jeez, the use of "palatable" on a day the main papers say we are up against food shortages...really?

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 19:35

My head says switch off from all this daftness, but my heart wishes for compromise and something that will work.

I suppose I am mad.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:36

Labour is reportedly backing Grieve, however much that means, with Corbyn

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:36

I'm off to Google Isabelle Oakshott, I have no idea who she is...

I would advise you NOT to...

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umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 19:38

Well if I've googled the right person she's not exactly a 'woman of the people'. Born in Westminster, attended Gordonstoun. Straight into political journalism after uni. Related to a life peer.

SusanWalker · 29/01/2019 19:39

Was it Sisyphus who was doomed to push a boulder up a hill, only for it to roll back to the bottom and have to start over?

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