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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 19:39

Perverse,

I wondered that ages ago in the thread.

Still no answer. Not that I am expecting one from anyone here either, just to mention. But honestly, the whole world must be giggling and laughing at the way this whole issue has been conducted by Parliament.

Great start to all those wonderful Trade Deals. Who would trust em.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:40

Hangs out with Aaron Banks... yeah thats her.

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Hazardswans · 29/01/2019 19:40

Following Independent live.

Is it just me (not used to following non brexit debates and amendments) but are the majority's all reasonably slim tonight?

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 29/01/2019 19:41

Was it Sisyphus who was doomed to push a boulder up a hill, only for it to roll back to the bottom and have to start over?

Yes. We’re still going to be arguing about Brexit in 30 years time aren’t we.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:41

Still stringing along the Tories against No Deal .... until it's too late

George Parker@GeorgeWParker

One minister says PM has promised new meaningful vote before Feb 12 - on an amendable motion
- thus delaying what Hammond called “high noon” for those trying to stop no deal

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:41

ayes 301 no 321

Grieve defeated.

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Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 19:41

Dominic Raab on channel 4 news being his usual dim witted and pompous self

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:42

B. The Yvette Cooper/extend article 50 amendment
One of the most closely scrutinised amendments, and backed by more than 70 MPs, this would guarantee parliamentary time for a private members’ bill drafted by Cooper that would extend article 50 to the end of 2019 if Theresa May failed to secure a deal by late February. While it seems likely to win official Labour backing, and from some Tories, it could be scuppered by doubts among Labour MPs in leave-voting areas. The government will whip MPs against backing it.

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mrslaughan · 29/01/2019 19:42

It's "Palatable" to the weathy who can afford to fill cupboards and freezers, can afford to stockpile food, and have no idea what it is like to go without......

I find it reprehensible

borntobequiet · 29/01/2019 19:43

Oakeshotte
Brexiteer popsy. And that’s being kind.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/11/profile-isabel-oakeshott-and-the-bad-boys-of-brexit

CromeYello · 29/01/2019 19:44

If Cooper fails does that make no deal more likely? Or no difference?

TheElementsSong · 29/01/2019 19:45

If Cooper fails does that make no deal more likely? Or no difference?

I honestly can't see any of it being relevant.

mrslaughan · 29/01/2019 19:45

Apileofballywho..... it's a real "let them eat cake" moment/statement isn't it?

Whisky2014 · 29/01/2019 19:46

Will cooper get through?

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 19:46

An anecdote while we're passing the time. My DM is a no deal leaver Angry

Anyway she lives in Stoke, went out earlier and it started snowing, she called me to moan that she'd almost not been able to get home and had nearly been in a multi car pile up.

Me: Well, it's been forecast for days, why didn't you stay at home?

Her: Well you can't trust these experts can you?

Me: Except the experts were right weren't they! So maybe if you'd listened you'd have been better off!!!

Also me: Of course, this is a metaphor for your approach to Brexit you know...

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:47

Rentoul also thinks the Cooper amendment will fail

Crome Cooper amendment would significantly reduce the chance of No Deal
AND
biggy !
would stop the Madhouse Noncompromise on the backstop in its tracks

Shame if Tory supporters have wimped out

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:47

Henry Newman @HenryNewman
Does the Brady amendment actually need to win tonight? Or just show that changes to backstop would deliver her critics? Think latter

Good question.

I was thinking about this before. Its not really politically binding. Its more like a political declaration. Which is why it would need to win overwhelmingly to change very much in the eyes of the EU. It might change things domestically, but thats meaningless in reality anyway.

Alex Wickham's reply to this tweet was curious too

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Uh oh. Brady jitters...

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:48

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Labour sources reckon Cooper going to lose but Spelman will pass

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CromeYello · 29/01/2019 19:48

BigChoc
So if it fails??
It's going to be v close I think

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:49

The main effect of Brady passing and Cooper failing is that it increases the frantic belief of Tories that the EU will give in on the backstop.

So they won't pass the only WA that May and the 27 EU leaders agreed
and time may run out to No Deal

Crimson72 · 29/01/2019 19:49

But the Spelman amendment is only advisory and has no legislative force Sad

Lottapianos · 29/01/2019 19:50

'Dominic Raab on channel 4 news being his usual dim witted and pompous self'

He is such an utter shit for brains. No idea why anyone is remotely interested in anything he has to say

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 19:50

@AlbertoNardelli
An EU official tells me that the irony of all this debate in the Commons is that “it makes crystal clear why we need a backstop in the first place”

Couldn't agree more! The Tories have just made themselves look even slippier and even more untrustworthy than before. I wouldn't trust them to run a cake stall at a school fair.

TheElementsSong · 29/01/2019 19:51

I'm kind of assuming Brady yes, Cooper no?