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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:14

O. SNP/Plaid Cymru amendment
This notes that the Scottish and Welsh assemblies also “voted overwhelmingly to reject the prime minister’s deal”, calling for an extension of article 50 and no deal being removed as an option.

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:16

David Henig @DavidHenigUK
Increasingly thinking the Brady amendment and the announcement of the next vote on Feb 13 has taken the importance out of today's vote. No incentive on EU to do anything but hold firm, and wait for next steps.

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Dongdingdong · 29/01/2019 19:17

You used the word 'sensible'. Do you really need to ask.

Ha!

greenelephantscarf · 29/01/2019 19:18

mobile.twitter.com/GiveBloodNHS/status/1090268210631327744

@GiveBloodNHS
Antwort an
@RachelLK
We have taken the decision to cancel blood donation sessions in Dover and Folkestone for a 2 week period before and a 6 week period after Britain’s exit from the EU. This is because in the event of issues in Calais and other freight ports, this could lead to significant (1/2)

derxa · 29/01/2019 19:18

Derxa The EU have to negotiate with the govt we have, not the one they wish we had ...although I suspect they aren't hopeful of Corbyn either
No I don't think the EU care but I suspect most people on here don't want the Tories.
My worst scenario is playing out. No Deal then Corbyn. I'm in despair.

Crimson72 · 29/01/2019 19:19

So the Labour amendment didn't get through - can someone explain what this actually means for Brexit? @RedToothBrush maybe?!

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/01/2019 19:19

SNP (Guradian) Here is the full text of the SNP amendment.

Line 1, leave out from “House” to end and add “notes that the Scottish parliament, national assembly for Wales and House of Commons all voted overwhelmingly to reject the prime minister’s deal; calls for the government to seek an extension of the period specified under article 50(3) of the treaty on European Union; agrees a no deal outcome should be ruled out;and recognises that if the UK is an equal partnership of nations, the 62% vote to remain at the EU referendum on 23 June 2016 in Scotland should be respected and that the people of Scotland should not be taken out of the EU against their will.”.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:20

However exasperating, voters chose the Tories over Labour
It's not like the Tories invaded and became a dictatorship

So, yes, we pay the price when we choose the biggest change since WW2 and then elect a party of arrogant ignorant fuckwits & spivs to negotiate for us

If you think the EU haven't been "nice", wait until the UK tries negotiating with the USA, China, India ...
The UK has revealed it is woefully unequipped to go it alone

I don't actually think Corbyn could do any worse
never thought I'd say that

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/01/2019 19:20

Gah! Bold fail.
Onwards!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 19:20

I need an instant summary please - sneaking off for a quick loo break...

Whisky2014 · 29/01/2019 19:20

I like the SNP amendment.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 19:21

@derxa As an English person I also fully support the EU stopping us from shitting on Ireland, again.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:21

Crimson The only important amendments imo are Cooper and Brady, votes to come
Grieve would be useful, but not as important

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:22

can someone explain what this actually means for Brexit?

Absoluetely nothing. Nothing at all.

It just means the idea proposed by Labour was rejected on this particular occasion. It could be proposed (in a different manner) at a later date.

Nothing has changed, to coin a phrase.

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TheElementsSong · 29/01/2019 19:22

I need an instant summary please

Um, everything they're debating tonight is irrelevant?

1tisILeClerc · 29/01/2019 19:22

The EU want the UK to have a strong and stable government and would negotiate with whoever holds this place. Speaking to the current jelly is near impossible.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 19:23

lol!

Crimson72 · 29/01/2019 19:23

It just means the idea proposed by Labour was rejected on this particular occasion. It could be proposed (in a different manner) at a later date. Nothing has changed, to coin a phrase.

Ahh ok thanks - no need to panic too much then?!

So Cooper and Brady are the ones to watch then...

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/01/2019 19:23

BigChoc I'm not a labour voter but I really don't wish the next 10 years on any party, other than the tories. As my leave friend said "the only reason Brexit would fail is if JC was in power". I want them to have to sort this shitstorm out. I also hate them and wish they could all be abducted by any foreign power and taught how to talk nicely in public.

Loletta · 29/01/2019 19:24

Isabelle Oakshott on Sky News just said that there is a shift towards No Deal and it's much more "palatable" Angry

Crimson72 · 29/01/2019 19:24

Just spotted on the Guardian updates...

Tom Newton Dunn
@tnewtondunn
Bad news for Cooper/Boles. I'm told around 30 Labour MPs will either abstain or vote against it, some on the frontbench. Will make the vote v tight.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/01/2019 19:24

It's just the moving of any further HoC influence to Feb...or not. Either way by then not much can be done.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 19:25

I need a rolling ticker in my room!

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:25

Sean O'Neill @TimesONeill
What’s the betting we’ll wake up tomorrow and have that Groundhog Day feeling - May will still be PM and she’ll be no closer to a deal of any feckin kind whatsoever and another week will have been wasted?

Ian Dunt on the Malthouse Compromise
www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/01/29/desperate-new-tory-brexit-compromise-is-as-pitiful-as-all-th
Desperate new Tory Brexit compromise is as pitiful as all the others

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/01/2019 19:27

I've forgotten which one cooper is. argh.