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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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Thread gallery
19
BrexitGarden · 29/01/2019 18:56

Someone is in Nodding Dawn Butler's seat.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:57

Nicholas Watt @nicholaswatt
Jacob Rees-Mogg: decision today does not commit us to supporting PM in two weeks if no changes to deal

Oh ffs.

Just say you want no deal and have bloody done with it.

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:58

Nicholas Watt @nicholaswatt
Mark Francois, seen as one of ERG members most hostile to PM deal, says he will vote for Graham Brady amendment

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:00

This is the problem

Former cabinet minister:

".How likely she’ll actually get changes? Just under 50%..... but what option has she got ?

NO: It's not just under 50%, it's under 0.5%

The Tory party are facing a situation they stupidly created but now can't cope with:

They've always bullied their way in the UK using the apparatus of the state:
benefit sanctions, police, monitoring every facet of our lives from schoolkids to dustbins for control

Now they are having to actually negotiate with a bloc several times more powerful
and they haven't a clue how to do this.

So they can only retreat into delusion
(and some keep thinking they cn bully Ireland)

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:00

Ok time for the votes to start.

The first Amendment is as follows:

A. Official Labour amendment
Tabled by Jeremy Corbyn and backed by a series of frontbenchers, this pushes the party policy of avoiding no deal and instead seeking a form of customs union.

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:01

Oooooo BBC Parliament has commentary!

Its weird when it does.

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ElenadeClermont · 29/01/2019 19:02

Just catching up. Let them.go.to.the chippy?! Seriously?! People of Northern Ireland, I am begging you to please destroy these people at the next election. You are better than this. Flowers

The EU is not going to blink, because they expect no deal to be short-lived. We will crawl back within 72 hours cap in hand.

derxa · 29/01/2019 19:02

Not just Merkel ... and Tusk and Junckers and Weyand ... NON from Macron too: Good for them. Cut from the same cloth as the Westminster MPs. Why you lionise these people I have no idea.

greenelephantscarf · 29/01/2019 19:03

www.blood.co.uk/news-and-campaigns/news-and-statements/cancellation-of-donation-sessions-in-dover-and-folkstone-statement/#.XFCBskJN3lo.twitter

blood uk cancels blood donations in kent due to operation stack

TokyoSushi · 29/01/2019 19:03

DH has insisted we go out for dinner! Keep me posted!

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 19:04

What is the point of all this could anyone tell me now?

To my mind it doesn't matter what the results are.

The EU (hopefully) will reject any attempt at time limiting the backstop.

Or any other delaying shenanigans. I really hope EU does not blink first.

greenelephantscarf · 29/01/2019 19:04

and my bank has told me I can't tranfer money to 'forrin' via a broker anymore...

Dongdingdong · 29/01/2019 19:04

A. Official Labour amendment
Tabled by Jeremy Corbyn and backed by a series of frontbenchers, this pushes the party policy of avoiding no deal and instead seeking a form of customs union.

What's the likelihood of this one getting through? It sounds like a rather sensible idea to me.

derxa · 29/01/2019 19:04

Someone is in Nodding Dawn Butler's seat. Grin She was on Jeremy
Vine today. Confused

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 19:05

Wasn't there an article ages ago when negotiations were ongoing and the EU kept having to repeat that they wouldn't split the four freedoms...it was about the fact that the UK interpret 'no' to mean 'persuade us' whereas the EU mean 'no'.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:07

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
As MPs tuck into a slightly dubious 'fish and chip pie' in the Commons tonight, one Tory backing Cooper amendment is pretty pessimistic.

Thinks they will lose by 5 votes.

We shall see...

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:08

derxa the UK tories want to renegotiate a deal they negotiated for 2 years
and shaft Ireland

The EU say no. The deal was signed by all heads of govt.
Yes, I support them if they refuse to bully Ireland into dropping the backstop

because that is what the Uk is demanding: Bully Ireland to get the Tors party our of the hole it has dug
Shameful

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:09

What's the likelihood of this one getting through? It sounds like a rather sensible idea to me.

You used the word 'sensible'. Do you really need to ask.

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:10

Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli
An EU official tells me that the irony of all this debate in the Commons is that “it makes crystal clear why we need a backstop in the first place”

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:11

The EU will renegotiate if the UK drops red lines and changes the future relationship it wants
e.g. SM and frictionless trade

So far - and I hope forever - they won't bully Ireland into submission as the price of the EU's continued trade with the UK

derxa · 29/01/2019 19:11

the UK tories I think this is the most important phrase.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:11

Duncan Weldon @DuncanWeldon
The Malthouse Compromise. The Grieve Amendment. The Backstop. The Salzburg Summit. The Implementation Period.

Brexit is basically a never ending series of bad airport spy thriller titles.

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nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 19:13

ROI in a tricky position here if EU decides to accept a time limited backstop.

But will the EU do this?

I sincerely hope not. Lesson, you cannot always get what you want. There has to be compromise, and I really thought that was achieved in the WA.

But no, not good enough, so stamp your foot and on we go. And possible awaken some terrorists/dissidents from their slumber for another go at it all. Dreadful stuff.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 19:13

Aye 296 Nos 327

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 19:14

Derxa The EU have to negotiate with the govt we have, not the one they wish we had ...
although I suspect they aren't hopeful of Corbyn either

You seem to want them to bully Ireland into dropping the backstop - because that's the bit they refuse to change

They are still saying they'll modify the PD to a much better future relationship for trade if we want.

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