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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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19
umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 17:56

@ClashCityRocker You haven't missed anything.

The situation is as bonkers as it seems...

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 29/01/2019 17:56

Not caught up yet but just wanted to say how I impressed I am by Liz Saville Roberts.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 17:58

Torygraph (Swindon's rag) is Brexit unicorn central

They've been claiming since the ref was announced that the EU will roll over for the mighty UK
To date ..... Nope

Shame the HoC library caught the unicorn lurgy

Missbel · 29/01/2019 17:58

After watching Liz Saville Roberts, I could bear to vote Plaid Cymru at the next election if they put up a candidate in my (Welsh) constituency. Though I am uneasy about their position on gender recognition.

GD12 · 29/01/2019 17:58

Anyone else not watching it tonight? I can't, it's too depressing.

Motheroffourdragons · 29/01/2019 17:59

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

1tisILeClerc · 29/01/2019 18:00

The problem with ships isn't really the ships but being able to get lorries through customs and security checks. The existing ships will be waiting around, compared to their current schedules, unless they just keep to what they are dong now and get loaded with whatever has made it through customs. Inefficient of course. Existing RoRo ferries are set up for the ramp arrangements and alternative ships are likely to need refitting.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:00

Latest on numbers:

Jessica Elgot @jessicaelgot
Labour source predicts Cooper-Boles will need at least 25 Tories to pass. Some Labour MPs have also now signed Brady amendment - John Mann, Jim Firtzpatrick and now independent Frank Field. Looking to be an absolute squeaker for both.

The highest number of Tory rebels I can recall is 23. But I might be wrong.

I am not fancying its chances.

Especially given this:

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Bad news for Cooper/Boles. I'm told around 30 Labour MPs will either abstain or vote against it, some on the frontbench. Will make the vote v tight.

With regard to Brady, the important word in the commons library verdict is 'overwhelming'. That does not mean 'passed by the seat of its pants'.

Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
🚨 Resignation watch: Harrington and Ellwood

Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
Government braced for a panicky Brussels non, nein no straight out of the blocks tonight after the vote. But feeling in Downing Street the power is now with the council not the commission. Expect another tour of capitals.

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
On blood donation story - source tells BBC decision wasn't cleared through Dept of Health nationally, and will be reversed straight away

For now...

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Inniu · 29/01/2019 18:00

@Nicola. I like your train of thought on a time limited backstop...... 800 years sounds about right😀

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 29/01/2019 18:01

Is it me or is she a rare proper grown-up in the HoC?

Plus, she has a great turn of phrase. I particularly enjoyed her reference to
The Brexiteers’ ‘single 360 degree all-encompassing blindspot’ with regard to Ireland.

And sorry, belated thank you to Red.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 18:01

Missbel All parties in the HoC purport to believe that men can turn into women
This fact-free faith in unicorns is not restricted to Brexit

Some unicorn drug in the subsidised booze ?

SusanWalker · 29/01/2019 18:02

I think that (correct me if I'm wrong because the whole thing is quite confusing) that the Malthouse thing is for TM to take to the EU when Brady's amendment is passed and she has to go back to the EU to ask them to take out the backstop.

Inniu · 29/01/2019 18:03

twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1090302993801588737?s=21

Juncker told May on the phone just before she went into the HoC that the WA would not be renegotiated.

SusanWalker · 29/01/2019 18:06

I thought Labour was on a three line whip for the Cooper amendment? Will the members of the front bench resign to vote against? Will we get rid of Angela Rayner who I have an irrational dislike of?

TorchesTorches · 29/01/2019 18:07

Agree Liz SR was excellent.

Years ago at election time, channel 4 did a 1 pager on each partys policies, but didn't include which party it was from. I downloaded each one and marked each according to my beliefs. I then looked up which party i supported and it turned out to be Plaid Cymru, which neglectfully didn't have a candidate in my London constituency!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 18:07

@red is Brady being counted as Malthouse now ?
Or is Malthouse someting that would be dragged out in a couple of weeks ?

TheElementsSong · 29/01/2019 18:08

It's such a messed-up situation now. Parliament are basically debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, whilst the clock inexorably counts down. The hardliners demand a narrower and narrower definition of the pure vision. Yet slowly, gradually, the mood of the populace shifts further and further from Brexit.

The food shortages thing seems to have broken down all over the MN boards, and Leavers are working hard to contain it. Plenty of new faces, doing drive-bys of course, but also some familiar names back to prolific posting after a long absence.

Hazardswans · 29/01/2019 18:08

Belated ta red

PMK....just need to catch up now.

Read a headline that said the pound will surge of no deal is blocked and thats all I know today.

BestIsWest · 29/01/2019 18:09

pMK

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 18:12

Inniu

You are funny, but correct in many ways.

I threw out 21 years, as that is the period for which we have had peace and no real border. If a border comes back, it will be mayhem. I reckon there are many plans afoot from dissidents on both sides who will not like a hard border. Plenty of Loyalist people work in Dublin and take the train from Belfast and places in between to Dublin every day, and they are very welcome.

Vice versa applies, but possibly not to the same extent (numbers wise). But still.

Who wants a return to the crap, murder, uncertainty, etc. and so on EVER?

Well it seems to be on the way.

I sure hope the EU do not blink now.

Must be very difficult times for the Irish Government though, trying to uphold the GFA, their own people, and not knowing what the heck is going to happen. Awful.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:12

Jim Pickard @PickardJE
am hearing ERG MPs are warming towards the Brady amendment, even Andrew Bridgen is telling their Whatsapp group he supports it, one member tells me they'll look "absurd" if they don't support it given it could pave way for Malthouse managed no-deal

The Brady Amendment is the gateway drug to Malthouse Smack.

Vote Brady, get Malthouse I think is what is happening atm.

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Dongdingdong · 29/01/2019 18:13

When will we know wot's happening?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 18:13

WTO tariffs

Some are quite small, but food tariffs aren|t

big tariffs on dairy, fish, confectionary Sad ... and meat is about 50%

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail
RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:14

Or thats what the Brexiteers believe, which is prepares all that matters until it ALL gets smacked down by the EU.

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Buteo · 29/01/2019 18:14

I can't work it out - is the EU bluffing on not reopening the WA?

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