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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 17:08

He would make life & death sounds as exciting as reading a tax return

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 17:12

I know...it's such a shame because the man speaks all of the sense.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 17:13

Anyone have any ideas on whether I can listen somehow to parliamentary debate or even LBC while at my upholstery class?

I have an iPhone so feel I should be able to

DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 17:13

I really don't get why so many people are wiling to put faith in upper class posers like Rees Mogg and Johnson - after all, these are the people who've been screwing the working classes for the last 1000 years.

But at least they are English -screwing-the-working-classes ... and white.

BirdyBedtime · 29/01/2019 17:13

As an aside I usually watch the BBC live stream but it never displays the tweets on my laptop so I'm following The Guardian today and it's far superior IMO.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 17:14

Anyone have any ideas on whether I can listen somehow to parliamentary debate or even LBC while at my upholstery class?

Do they have WiFi ? Internet radio ?

SalrycLuxx · 29/01/2019 17:15

work does have a tendency to get in the way of more interesting things.

I know. Isn’t it a pain Grin

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 17:15

Could someone please explain to me how UK can be so arrogant as to expect the EU to agree to any backstop rearrangement, if no one knows what the rearrangement involves, or even means!

I think this has all the hallmarks of an arrogant British Government trying to get the EU and ROI in a pincer movement. ( do realise the ROI is the EU, but they have a lot of skin in the game).

If the EU say "non" well then, the Government can blame so called EU intransigence. It is shaping up nicely.

SalrycLuxx · 29/01/2019 17:16

Can we only requisition ships flying our flag? I’d assumed we’d steal anything that docked if necessary.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 17:17

I’d assumed we’d steal anything that docked if necessary.

When it was proposed we turn back the clock I wasn't aware that might include endorsing piracy.

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nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 17:18

Umpteen,

if there is wi fi (or even listen over your own 4g), download the Global Player app, select LBC. Then stick in your earphones and listen away.

Well that's what I do anyway!

Apileofballyhoo · 29/01/2019 17:19

When it was proposed we turn back the clock I wasn't aware that might include endorsing piracy.

Britannia rules the waves.

Apileofballyhoo · 29/01/2019 17:20

DH listens to LBC on his android phone in Ireland so it must be possible.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 17:23

If we try to requisition ships from any other country, we would immediately be an international pariah

(.... as we would if we Brexit with No Deal and shaft Ireland
.... or leave the ECHR - I don't rule out any depths and May would genuinely like that)

The country where it is flagged would apply trade sanctions and so would all its mates

If we requisition a US, Russian or Chinese ship .... just don't go there !

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 17:25

Impossible to overestimate how preposterous the UK government have made themselves appear. Potential trade partners must be sniggering up their sleeve at the thought of doing negotiations with this shower of inept amateurs. Who would trust a word they said?

AutumnCrow · 29/01/2019 17:26

Dominic Raab speaking now. Followed by DUP's Nigel Dodds. I'm underwhelmed.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 17:26

Now you've worried me.
This Tory party contains MPs that genuinely think the UK can & should do that
because we're entitled

It's not just the morality of the act ...
It's like an ex-boxer down on his luck deciding to take up mugging
unfortunately said boxer is punchdrunk, with a big beer belly .... and is 80 years old

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 17:27

red "Buccanneering Britain" is a popular theme in patriotic rightwing Brexit circles

SalrycLuxx · 29/01/2019 17:27

I never said it was a good idea Grin. But we have funny powers in war/turmoil scenarios.

⚓️🚢⚓️🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️

icannotremember · 29/01/2019 17:28

Taking no deal off the table makes no deal more likely, says Nigel Dodds.

Jesus.

TorchesTorches · 29/01/2019 17:28

Watching parliament tv. I think Yvette Cooper, Rachel Reeve were excellent. Dominic Grieve was initially annoying, but then improved considerably. Hilary Benn was persuasive and Dominic Raab was oily and crap. Am very much enjoying my new discovery (parliament tv, with its sidebar usefully telling you who is who).

God knows what the outcome will be though, the HOC is less than half full.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 17:29

Thanks @nicoala1 I shall do that!

1tisILeClerc · 29/01/2019 17:31

I am not sure requisitioning ships would help anyway as there is still certifications and insurance and a load of other stuff necessary to actually moor it into a 'foreign' port.

PestymcPestFace · 29/01/2019 17:32

I thought for a moment Nigel Dodds was going to say what he did want. I was wrong.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 17:32

Carol Spelman (not sure how it's spelt) was decent.

Just got back, so just catching up now.

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