I am thinking EU should lift their backstop demand (Irish MNers?)

[YeOldeTrout]

Bear with me, I'm a rabid pro-EU person & Remainer, actually.

But if UK leaves on 'No Deal' we're going to have hard border in Ireland from 29/30 March 2019, anyway. If EU allows removal of backstop, there's (how ever long) transition period of UK abiding by GFA and no hard border, until end 2020 or end 2021 maybe. GFA may be screwed over after that given the parlous talents of UK to negotiate with EU, but at least there's a few extra yrs of peace and stability in Ireland first.

I know it's not EU policy to be like children 'kick the can down the road', but it's the lesser of evils, if removing Backstop demand could get WA approved by UK Parliament now.

EU will only lift Backstop if Ireland agrees. Would Ireland prefer hard-border. Is EU too proud? EU should only do this with mega-plans about supporting Ireland in threatened legal action of GFA violated at end of transition period.

Thoughts from Irish (including Norn) MNers?

Thuigim

Is it seen as patronising to say Éire? I haven't worked that out, why people get super angry about it.

For clarity,
A) I am NOT English, but I don't think English DC would know answer either
B) Some people seem to think it's ok to say Éire (or Eirann?) as long as you also habitually say España or Türkiye. Really? That's the only thing a person has to do do make saying Éire ok?
C) I've already been flamed on this thread so knock yourself out if that's all you want to do do in response, but
D) I am asking because i simply Do Not Know. Éire sounds nice to me. Why not use it?
E) I wondered if Ireland should refer to whole island, so maybe Éire (Eirann?) should too, so that was real reason, some kind of sensitivity about partition

I even googled. Neither of these links (all I could find) explain why it's so insulting for anyone to ever say Éire. Only mention of dislike of English accent saying it. If I don't have a (true) English accent, so is it ok for me to say Éire after all?

www.quora.com/Why-do-British-people-refer-to-Ireland-as-Éire-when-they-dont-call-Germany-Deutschland-or-Italy-Italia

www.balls.ie/football/why-do-irish-people-get-so-annoyed-when-english-sportsmen-refer-to-ireland-as-the-eire-321956

I believe there are political and historical reasons OP, to do with the UK not recognising Ireland as the country's name, I think. I wasn't aware of that til I joined MN tbh, and someone more knowledgeable will come along no doubt.

I hate it because it's just something we would never say. Irish people just say Ireland when they're speaking English (or Republic of if there's any ambiguity). Similarly, our native language is just called Irish when speaking English. When speaking Irish, it's Gaeilge. Never Gaelic.

From what I understand, the objection to the use of "Eire" by English-language speakers is because historically "Eire" has been used to avoid calling (the state of) Ireland by its preferred English-language name, which is Ireland.

Using "Eire" instead of Ireland was a political choice by people who for political reasons did not respect the name chosen by the Irish state for itself.

Aside from that it's not obvious why any English speaker would want to use a foreign-language word to describe a country which has an internationally and legally recognised English-language name.

Some people seem to think it's ok to say Éire (or Eirann?) as long as you also habitually say España or Türkiye. Really? That's the only thing a person has to do do make saying Éire ok?

I could live with that to be honest. Because at least it would be consistent. And most people would be laughing at you for being so pretentious, so there would be some comfort in that.

But I have never ever heard an English speaking person say they're going to Deutschland or Italia, so I'm guessing these people are few and far between.

There's something else... something you guys aren't saying about why Éire is out of bounds (this is common on MN threads). So obvious to you that you don't mention it but not obvious to a furriner like me).

I don't know what you mean OP. Several posters have explained it.

There's something else.

There's an entire Wikipedia article on it if you're that interested. Go do some reading.

I'm not trying to be difficult, just have a a hunch that something is unsaid. I've been caught that way very often before, esp. on MN. There turns out to be some joint cultural assumption that nobody says & they assume everyone absorbed with the mother's placental blood. (It is so not important, though, I'm used to being uninformed about such things).

Maybe I'll start writing Česká republika, : יִשְׂרָאֵל, La Argentina & so on. :).

Yeah. Trusting the UK has worked so well for us in the past......

xpost... Misti, do you mean this wikipedia page?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state#"Eire"and"Éire"_v_Ireland

It doesn't explain why saying Éire is offensive, does it? Please direct me to the page about why the name is controversial and makes people angry.

Trout - have you read the whole article carefully? There are two whole sections on disputes over what to call Ireland. The article doesn't directly answer your question, but if you read the whole article it should become clear why using Eire in English-language contexts may be offensive (and why everyone should find it unnecessary: the country's official English language name is Ireland. Why wouldn't you call if Ireland?).

I can't actually see a solution. What are we expecting TM to do?

aha! I get it. Of course i didn't read all 10,000 words on wikipedia page carefully ( who would ). But thanks for directing me back to the right paragraphs.

Exactly as I thought. Something seemed self-evident to you guys but needed explaining to me. Éire is annoying because it's not the name RoI has asked world to use. RoI has repeatedly asked to be called RoI or Ireland and moaned at UK for ever using Éire. It's like a Margaret being called Peggy but ignored. It's the disrespect that's offensive. And that gets tied up with imperialist history.

The logic why UK has had a problem saying Ireland and wanted to use Éire is also clear ("Ireland" could upset unionists in north thinking that it hinted at supporting full unification). So I understand legacy now why Éire was originally preferred by UK, and was widely used at one time so there are cultural memories of it seeming ordinary & legit. And most of all, why people like me get confused.

Next time MNers scold some poor soul who says Éire I can be the only nice person who actually explains to them why it causes offence.

Gracefully handled, Trout.

Yes that's nicely put - my earlier post said the same thing but probably too succinctly (because it is so hard to tell whether people are trolling on Brexit topics that I tend to err on the side of brevity).

I think we could have a computerised border. At the airport systems recognise me, my boarding pass whether I come from U.K. or timbuctoo, my car numberplate at the Ncp car park and let's me through to park and to leave prepaid, All cattle in the U.K. have eartags. They can be tagged. So could sheep in fields that cover the border. So you know whose is whose. Lorries don't drop from the skies into NI or Ireland, they trundle hundreds of miles across the U.K. from Dover or wherever to th e ports at cairnryan or wherever. All the drivers iinm have tachometers so we know if they've driven above a safe limit. They probably mostly have I'd on them if they're not British (or Irish).
How do we know that people stowaway on trucks- maybe cos police check them so why the big deal - develop a computerised system for trucks crossing the border, install it for free. Check if suspicious.
Done

I wonder when Silkie2 was last in Ireland, with their expert knowledge. I'm sure the fact that the UK government pays not attention to it will be because it's from an expert.

I would have thought the reason the U.K. isn't adopting it is because it could be construed as a hard border.

Do you think if it was that easy Silkie2 that the government would have that all in place by now?

Well we are at a standoff- dup must be seen to stand tough, since the troubles are not so far in the past.
No one has the best interests of anyone, it's a power thing going nowhere. Giving NI a hard border would affect least no of U.K. residents but dup would have to change their vote which for political reSons they won't do.

Who said it's easy, the options a no deal Brexit.

Install this equipment where?

It's really baffling that the UK government isn't paying Silkie for his/her expert knowledge!