To ask why would anyone want no deal?

[guinea36]

Watching Sunday morning political shows. A few politicians suggesting they would prefer no deal if necessary. These people are presumably intelligent and educated
Yet they believe - although I struggle to see it - that ultimately it will be better for the country economically in the long run. Just wondering what the theory is behind this belief?

Misti

Let's see if we can get a deal on a cure for stupid and expedite supplies to some posters.

The French farmers will be fine - don’t worry about them.

Us - well that’s another story.

There you go Bear - Sunny uplands - just a min ago or Misti's 'Brexit and it's supporters in a nutshell' - oh you did make me laugh too Misti, especially when you suggested I was laughably uninformed, and oh I did laugh when Boris said I was Spurious and uninformed.

Well try googling - How the EU starves Africa -afraid I'm no good at links.

The CAP is killing agriculture and industry in so many African countries.
The African TUC said that this EPA would allow the continued exploitation of the continent by European big business in that it promotes the continued export of raw materials and import of manufactured good to the participating countries as has always been the colonial model.
So far from helping Africa it is just perpetuating the protectionist policies of the EU.

I'm no fan of Liam Fox, but of course nobody is negotiating deals yet. They won't do it until No Deal happens. But then they will

Oh I am sure they will, except we will be left in such a weak negotiating state we will inevitably have to take what's offered. They know that, the Government knows that, the rest of the EU knows that, not so sure about Liam ?

In what way is totally going it alone in a world where most other countries are already part of some trading bloc,( for obvious economic reasons ), will give the UK a stronger negotiating position than the one it has now as part of one of the worlds largest trading blocs ?

I'd be the first to agree that there are many things wrong with the way that developed world domestic and foreign policy impacts on Africa. But if that's what you care most about, then Brexit is a decidedly odd way to go about it - the UK cannot reform the CAP from outside the EU, and if can't reduce tariffs and change quotas to benefit the poorest African countries because there are already no tariffs and quotas on trade with those countries.

Brexit will also reduce the UK's ability to fund foreign programmes, and reduce the political incentive to do so, because it's fundamentally an isolationist project.

Redyellow I fully agree

The French will not allow that to happen because we are the largest market for their apples

Serious question. Why use such a ludicrous example? If we get a no-deal Brexit, it happens in March not August. French farmers don't need a market for their apples in April, season's over, buyers are importing from the Southern Hemisphere. It's going to be 5 months before they are even slightly concerned about smaller exports to the UK.

In any case no one has said that the EU doesn't lose from no-deal: it's lose-lose. But as brexiters like to tell us, it's not all about economics. Sure. But it's not all about economics for the EU either and if it comes to it, it will sacrifice a percent of GDP to keep the single market intact.

Millyonth I am not sure what volume of goods you are selling into EU countries currently or what your profit margins are like. If there are disruptions with moving goods in and out of the UK , will your customers be happy with the delays ? What happens if the cost of moving things goes up, which it inevitably will have to if a journey takes much longer ? Do you take the hit in your profits or do you pass the cost on to the customer and hope that what you are selling still sells in the same volume ? Can you sell enough purely to the UK alone ? Selling to other countries will be effected in the same way selling to the EU will be so you might need to suddenly grow your UK market. Could you do that at a time of financial/economic uncertainty when people generally cut back and buy less stuff ?

Apples? One of the few fucking things we produce here and you are pinning your thinking on apples? Bloody hell.

What I still don't get is why are some people so scared of the backstop. If the technological solution is just around the corner as some BeLeavers claim, we won't need the backstop.

What I still don't get is why are some people so scared of the backstop.

If it wasn't the backstop it'd be something else. It's just a pretext - a mighty handy one because they are guaranteed DUP support on this. In the unlikely event that the backstop issue is resolved then ultra brexiters will pivot to a new anti-WA position.

Here's a little analogy .

You and your three friends go on a night out , you all live on the same street, at the end of the night, you decide you don't want to share a taxi home, this would cost you £5 each. Instead you decide to get your own taxi which costs you £20. Your three friends end up paying a little bit more each because you decided you wanted your own taxi. Now imagine there were 28 of you and you had hired a minibus or coach , you decide you want your own coach and pay a fortune, the other 27 just divide your fare between themselves.

Can you tell I can't find the TV remote ! any suggestions as to where it might be ?

Is the TV remote under the settee?
I like your analogy although BeLeavers/No Dealers get triggered by analogies, apparently. And facts. And people who ask questions. And people who don't have faith in the specific things they have faith in. Or who have faith in the specific things they don't have faith in.

Can you tell I can't find the TV remote ! any suggestions as to where it might be ? grin

Dishwasher. You put it there last night along with the empty glass of wine.

continuation of analogy as remote still missing …..

So now you have figured out that getting a coach all by yourself is very expensive so you go onto your night out group chat and see if you can persuade a few other people to share the cost of your coach. They are all like ' Noooo, stop this nonsense and come with us on our coach, it will only cost you a fiver ' . Nobody wants to go on your coach and pay more. You want your own coach because you think you deserve one sovereignty , but you don't want to pay for one by yourself. You go back to the group chat to tell people that actually the coach company has given you it for free because you are special, except quite rightly nobody believes you and they have all set up a separate chat discussing if you have actually lost your mind

Checked under the sofa and I hand wash my wine glass because it was expensive, well for a charity shop buy ! £5 for two of them, so I can only entertain one guest and pretend I am posh, otherwise I have to get out the Ikea ones

Doubletrouble99, you were uninformed, you blamed tariffs and protectionism of the EU for having detrimental effects on the developing countries in Africa, despite the fact that there are no tariffs.

You are conflating the issues of globalisation with those caused by the EU when you are discussing the export of raw materials and importing manufactured goods. Its one of the development traps that free trade opens up countries, but they fail to develop further because MNCs out compete infant industries.

So incorrect to blame the EU, and spurious.

Oh its also a false morality, fake put on to suggest the EU is iniquitous, because of course any trade deal with the UK would cause the same problems.

Misti - just because I bring something up doesn't mean it's the only thing I care about! It's just one example of the reason I dislike the EU. We had 40 years of being in the EU and didn't change things so I think we have been in long enough. I don't want our payments going to this crap CAP situation. Apart from the impact it has in developing countries I can see no reason for us to pay sugar beet farmers 3 times the world price for their produce and why we are paying over the odds for cereals etc. This makes our bread and cereals more expensive, why is that right?

I lived many years in the Cambridgeshire fens and I can say that all the beet farmers I knew were far from poor. I now live in a remote hill farming area. It's much more difficult to make a living from the land here so I can see the benefit of subsidies for this type of farming.

@frumpety is it in the pocket of something you don't normally wear but you did last night because it was cold? Is it in its new safe place that you decided it should be last night but have forgotten this morning?
As to your analogy, have you reached the part where you get horribly drunk, shout at your friends and try a drunken hook up with your ex before vomiting all over yourself and starting to cry.

Try the window ledge in the loo, you may have wandered in there and left it on the side?

Boris - I never said tariffs, it was the Common Agriculture policy of the EU I was talking about. That is what has affected the agriculture and food businesses in these countries most.
For example thousands of tons of unwanted EU milk powder were dumped in West African countries at a cheaper price than the local cattle farmers could sell their milk driving them out of business. Or the fact that frozen chicken was exported to Africa and sold at rock bottom prices putting local businesses out of businesses. That is what I am talking about. Not tariffs.

BorisBogtrotter says (in typically rude and dismissive fashion): Doubletrouble99, you were uninformed however as usual there is another view that fully supports Doubletrouble:

"How the EU starves Africa
The starkest example of the dark heart of the European Union is its brutal neo-colonial relationship with the Third World, particularly Africa. The most obvious and damaging exhibit is, of course, the Common Agricultural Policy which takes up half the EU budget and lavishes subsidies onto the EU’s biggest landowners at the expense of millions of the poorest farmers in Africa.

The criminal £30 billion-a-year subsidy regime allows the EU to dump thousands of tons of heavily-subsidised food into Africa every year. As a result local producers cannot export their products because they compete with the lower prices made possible by the CAP."
source: www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa

Bogtrotter et al, your belief that the EU is a totally benign organisation is just an opinion, not a fact! Other people have different opinions. That does not make us stupid.

it was the Common Agriculture policy of the EU I was talking about.

But Brexit does absolutely nothing to change that, and indeed removes any prospect of the U.K. working to change policies.

As an argument for Brexit it's misguided at best.

Also, this thread is about no deal and why people want that. I'm having trouble believing that the impact of the CAP on Africa is a reason to prefer no deal over a managed exit. In what way does a no deal exit help rather than harm Africa?