To ask why would anyone want no deal?

[guinea36]

Watching Sunday morning political shows. A few politicians suggesting they would prefer no deal if necessary. These people are presumably intelligent and educated
Yet they believe - although I struggle to see it - that ultimately it will be better for the country economically in the long run. Just wondering what the theory is behind this belief?

Some people (like Rees Mogg, Redwood and some of their billionaire tax exile cronies) want no deal because it would be a great opportunity for "disaster capitalists" who could swoop down like vultures to buy up the assets of all the British businesses which go bust, making a fast buck.

Some people want no deal because they have believed all the lies of the Leave campaign and the right wing gutter press that brexit means "we can spend £350m a week more on the NHS, "we can have cake and eat it" because "they need us more than we need them", "we are a global trading nation and the rest of the world is desperate to do deals with us" and all the rest of the unicorns, rainbows and sunlit uplands.

Some people want a no deal brexit because they live in miserable forgotten communities and have been fed the lie that it is the EU, not successive UK governments that are to blame. They just jumped at the chance to kick that arrogant David Cameron where it hurt.

Some people want a no deal brexit because they think no-deal means we don't hand over money to the EU and can get rid of foreigners (especially the ones who came here to steal our jobs and our benefits), but otherwise everything will still be the same - no problems with customs, transport, import, export, just-in-time deliveries or the Irish border (these threats are just fake news)

Some people are so ignorant that they think that no-deal means we remain in the EU.

This is an interesting link and demonstrates that the UK Government (inc Civil Service, etc) have indeed been making preparations towards an ordered Brexit.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/contents

How much has this brexit nonsense cost so far and how much could we save by revoking Article 50 immediately?

HateIsNotGood

That's the Act that repeals the original Act that allowed the UK to enter the EC in 1972, played ping pong in the HoC and HoL for weeks and gained Royal Assent last summer - did all that pass you by?

Note Article 10 though:

(2) Nothing in section 8, 9 or 23(1) or (6) of this Act authorises regulations which—

(a)diminish any form of North-South cooperation provided for by the Belfast Agreement (as defined by section 98 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998), or

(b)create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day which feature physical infrastructure, including border posts, or checks and controls, that did not exist before exit day and are not in accordance with an agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU.

It's also the one that defines "exit day" as March 29th 2019.

Yes Buteo it is - and it's still being formed as it's preliminary - but what it demonstrates is some planning and aforethought ready for an Act of Parliament that allows for an 'orderly' legal Brexit.

There's loads of paras and sections for MNers to cherry-pick and get their teeth into. Enjoy!

it's still being formed as it's preliminary

No, it's not - it became law by Royal Assent on 26th June 2018.

It can be Amended by Parliament very quickly. It seems to 'mesh' rather well with the later-agreed WA. I think it clearly demonstrates that our system of Government isn't completely defunct and useless peopled by buffoons, grandstanders and weaklings.

That we are completely governed by emotion, the media (including MN) - I actually do believe in the UK system of Govt, although I really don't think it faultless at all.

The young lady who brought to Parliament's attention the now legislated for 'upskirting' problem said in an interview a couple of days ago that she previously wouldn't have believed that a "someone like her" could actually effect change like that in the UK and views our 'system' far more positively.

later-agreed WA means the WA agreed by all the Brexit Negotiators

Hardly Hatels!
its been against the law in Scotland since 2010 but it still took Gina Martin 18 months to get the law changed in england and even then an MP voted down the private MPs bill, without that negative publicity, she'd still be waiting!

Fantastic its finally been done but hardly a glowing example of parliament at its best.

It can be Amended by Parliament very quickly. It seems to 'mesh' rather well with the later-agreed WA.

The WA will be subject to its own EU (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill once (if) it is ever agreed by Parliament.

And to amend an Act, Parliament would need to pass another Act or enable secondary legislation or repeal it. Not that quick or easy.

Upper echelons rich people always make money out of chaos. Of course they want it.
Any savings will not be passed on to us but can bet your bottom dollar or pound that any losses will

why don't we have some constructive ideas from remainers?

I believe it is reckless, foolish, irresponsible and contrary to every intelligent thought I have to leave. How would I come up with a way to do that well. There is no way to do something bad, well. Good Brexit is an oxymoron.

I think the only sensible way to leave is to have a long term plan to reestablish our economy as one that relies on being broadly self sufficient.

I still don’t believe the problem is the EU, however, and that’s what makes me most sad about the whole thing. We’re going to go through all of this distress and it’s not going give us any more control or provide more jobs or reduce immigration or solve housing/school/doctor number problems.

The Internet canard that people like Redwood or Rees Mogg are "disaster capitalists" that want chaos is completely nuts. Some people (including them) genuinely believe that the UK will be better off outside the EU and that no deal is the only way to get there. They are also convinced that no deal will in fact result in useful deals - and fast.

The BBC story today about the French farmers explains why. As Leavers have to keep repeating tediously - we buy much more from them than they do from us. Therefore they will not want punitive tariffs.

The French farmers do not take any shit and they will make sure that we can still trade with them after we Leave:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46944358

Mrs TP, I really do understand that feeling but, in reality, other than signing a few petitions, writing to your MP, attending a 'protest' what in all reality do you think you are going to do?

I mean that respectfully, not to rile or disagree - but when, as is likely, that Brexit really starts - are you really going to do anything other than carry on as much as you did before; making the best of the situation you are in, making the best of the life you have?

Sky is reporting a leaked government document tonight that suggests that a reasonable worst-case no-deal scenario is a fall of 75-87% in cross channel traffic in goods.

This assumes that the French apply minimum checks to all shipments (ie an 87% fall in capacity isn't even the real worst case - it's just the worst of the likely cases).

Internet canard that people like Redwood or Rees Mogg are "disaster capitalists

They are!

They represent the far right of the Tory party.

They want to remove workers rights. They want to dismantle legislation. They want to take the NHS apart.

genuinely believe that the UK will be better off outside the EU

Better off in what way?

Better off in what way?
In nearly every way probably. They are ardent eurosceptics.

Apologies, I didn't make myself clear with my aversity to EU policies regarding African countries. What I was getting at is the EU common agriculture policy not tariffs, which give vastly inflated prices to EU farmers for their produce other neighbouring countries can't compete and then the EU dumps all it's surplices on them.

Misti. Sky is reporting a leaked government document tonight that suggests that a reasonable worst-case no-deal scenario is a fall of 75-87% in cross channel traffic in goods.This assumes that the French apply minimum checks to all shipments (ie an 87% fall in capacity isn't even the real worst case - it's just the worst of the likely cases).

But the bbc story above about the French farmers illustrates why this will never happen. It is not in the French interest to kill off trade between us.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46944358

{The BBC story today about the French farmers explains why. As Leavers have to keep repeating tediously - we buy much more from them than they do from us. Therefore they will not want punitive tariffs. }

Leaving the EU means that tariffs get applied automatically so the main way to prevent new tariffs is to remain IN the EU.
Ultimately deals will be done but that could be many months or even years away.

Leaving is ripping up international trade agreements, not a handshake with a guy down the bub.