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Brexit

Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2019 23:30

May is in trouble. The Tory Party are in trouble.

Brexit is not in trouble, but we certainly are.

May's problem is she has no way forward.

One the one hand, the ERG will not accept anything to soften Brexit. That's an extension or Norway. Or a second ref. The story tonight emerging of Rees-Mogg as 'peacemaker' is quite the opposite. Its a thinly veiled threat saying if you do not please the ERG we will split and no longer support the PM. They will quiet simply threaten to collapse the government if May decides on that course. Their gamble will be that with the Tories ahead in the polls, they can get enough seats to enable no deal or cause enough chaos to cause accidental no deal. Thus forcing out One Nation Tories from the party.

One the other hand if May does not soften Brexit, rumour has it that 20 ministers including several cabinet, will walk. There is talk of cabinet ministers supporting a second ref and of others supporting Nick Boles proposals and demanding a free vote on the matter.

May on the other hand seemed determined to pursue plan A which is now plan B, in the form of the WA. In order to do this her plan was go for cross party talks and a compromise. The trouble is May doesn't understand what the word compromise means, because... Well see above about the two factions within the Tory Party presenting a bit of an issue to that. She felt the WA was the only way to stop the party split / stop the government collasping.

In addition to this we have Labour trying to avoid a split. Corbyn had his ridiculous starting point to cross party talks being completely impossible for May. You can't take no deal off the table if it is the table. Corbyn was essentially asking directly for a revocation or extension to A50 clause. May could not agree to that because... Well see above.

Corbyn is now talking about whipping against Grieve's amendment which sort to create a cross party consensus. Bizarrely grieves suggestion seemed to be for a minority rather than majority which rather undermined it, by Corbyn's real motivation is about his power, preventing a centre consensus and possible splits in the Labour Party.

Corbyn merely wants to be obstructive, and block everything now as he thinks May and the Conservative Party are doomed to fail and the government will fail. And arguably this is a good and sensible calculation as things stand.

May's next Meaningful vote is due on the 29th Jan. But 28th Feb is pencilled in for a general election. Meaning it would have to be called by Thursday this week.

Will it happen?

We find out, not on this thread, but the next one... Or maybe even the one after that!

PS there was a bomb in Londonderry. And there's talk of a bilateral treaty with Ireland (a euphemisms for renegotiating the GFA).

Brexit was always ultimately about NI.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
TatianaLarina · 20/01/2019 14:45

Gin PMK

MangoSplit · 20/01/2019 14:47

Place marking

Apileofballyhoo · 20/01/2019 14:48

If people want to read short historical novels based on huge events in Ireland you could try Walter Macken. Seek the Fair Land (Cromwell as in Oliver, Lord Protector), The Silent People (famine) and The Scorching Wind (WWI, War of Independence, Partition/Treaty, Civil War). That film mentioned by a pp (Wind that shakes the barley) is similar to the last novel - can't remember if it's officially based on it or not.

Hazardswans · 20/01/2019 14:57

Just sat here stressing, january been busy with DP related things as well as Brexit shite. Then you lot remind me to bake my stresses away! I can do that Grin

Oh and brexit has infiltrated my dreams now to...I dreamt about all of you as well but as problem solvers squirreling away across the UK and EU trying to do good.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:00

To pp asking why 28 Feb is a possible GE date:

Some ministers have been leaking this anonymously;
also some have warned their local consituency parties to be ready for a GE on that date:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general

Hasenstein · 20/01/2019 15:08

No, I just can't keep up with the pace of these threads, so I've had to start skipping (pages, not with a rope Grin).

Thanks again, Red and all you lovely thoughtful contributors, I promise I'm trying hard to keep up.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:09

Sam Coates Times@SamCoatesTimes
·
Team Corbyn

Split with Keir Starmer?

Asked whether they agree with Keir Starmer’s comments Labour would “have to accept” a backstop,
a Labour spokesman declined to repeat his words and said “we would not fall into it”
.......
Labour

Here is shadow brexit Secretary Keir Starmer on the backstop - and how Labour will reluctantly accept it

Is this compromise the most important thing to happen today?

Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?
Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?
MsForestier · 20/01/2019 15:10

I know Tom Bartlett. He's an excellent historian.

MsForestier · 20/01/2019 15:13

He's also recently edited The Cambridge History of Ireland (4 Volumes)

TheElementsSong · 20/01/2019 15:13

I stumbled across the No Deal thread.

Well gosh.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 20/01/2019 15:13

King Henry VIII- white, arrogant, fat male with dubious attitudes towards women. Happy to change an entire country's religion to get his end was despite that ensuring war...sounds familiar.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 20/01/2019 15:14

*get his end away, despite...

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:15

The govt tried to push their fantasy about renegotiating the GFA,
but
the complete refusal ot the RoI and EU to even engage over this seems to be making No 10 backtrack:

Sam Coates Times@SamCoatesTimes

NEW:

No 10 source: Bilateral treaty idea is not something we recognise from our end
.....
Simon Coveneyy@simoncoveney*

For the record, Taoiseach & I have always been on the same page on #Brexit & we remain united & focused on protecting Ireland.
That includes continued support for the EU/UK agreed WA in full, including the Backstop as negotiated.^
@RTENewsNow

TheElementsSong · 20/01/2019 15:20

Can I just check: is "let them drink Aussie wine" the new "let them eat cake"? Grin

Ta1kinPeace · 20/01/2019 15:22

Elements
Grin seems to be

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:22

To be fair, Henry VIII was desperate to produce a legitimate male heir for reasons of state,
to avoid a repetition of the 12th century English Civil War, which started when King Henry I died leaving only a legitimate daughter and a nephew to fight over the crown.

When women were regarded as chattels, it was difficult to have a chattel being the absolute monarch over all the English men

DGRossetti · 20/01/2019 15:26

Not really sure that the "left behind" who, let's be honest were pretty much conned to vote Leave, will be thrilled that cheap Australian wine instead of £350 million a week for the NHS.

In hindsight, maybe the best weapon Remain had was to highlight all the lovely middle-class benefits of Brexit ?

LonelyandTiredandLow · 20/01/2019 15:27

The MRA covers about one-third of British goods exports to Australia...
link - so it is rather one-sided in benefit to them.

All goods coming to us are checked at their end to make sure they comply with 'British standards' - presumably, they mean EU? Not sure we've agreed what our own ones are yet?

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:34

Interesting article about growing up in 80s Derry.
A birds eye view as seen by an ordinary teen - book review

‘This was not our war’: Life as a punk in 1980s Derry

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/this-was-not-our-war-life-as-a-punk-in-1980s-derry-1.3739470?

nicoala1 · 20/01/2019 15:39

My head is now melting.

Am I missing something important here..... Aus has just made a trade deal with UK regarding wine. UK is in the EU, so what's the problem regarding trade deals?

I think the Aus deal must be part of EU/Aus agreements or something.

Sostenueto · 20/01/2019 15:43

The chairman of the Tory party knows nothing about a GE so he said on TV this morning.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:45

nicola The UK is allowed to make deals that will come into force AFTER Brexit

Also this looks like an MRA (Mutual Recognition Agreement) not an FTA (Free Trade Agreement)
so it could be negotiated much more quickly
It basically removes some NTBs (Non-Tariff Barriers) fo some Australian goods coming into the UK

TheElementsSong · 20/01/2019 15:45

UK is in the EU, so what's the problem regarding trade deals?

Just blankly accept it as good news, m'kay, and don't ask difficult questions that suggest you (shudder) think and notice contradictions Grin, what are you - some kind of elite?

(Whereas "let them drink Aussie wine" is abso-posi-lutely not elite, m'kay?)

Somerville · 20/01/2019 15:46

is "let them drink Aussie wine" the new "let them eat cake"?

First thing to make me laugh out loud today - Elements Star Star Star

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:46

ntbo, other EU members that are NOT leaving obviously cannot make deals to come into effect after an event that won't happen 😏

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