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Brexit

Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2019 23:30

May is in trouble. The Tory Party are in trouble.

Brexit is not in trouble, but we certainly are.

May's problem is she has no way forward.

One the one hand, the ERG will not accept anything to soften Brexit. That's an extension or Norway. Or a second ref. The story tonight emerging of Rees-Mogg as 'peacemaker' is quite the opposite. Its a thinly veiled threat saying if you do not please the ERG we will split and no longer support the PM. They will quiet simply threaten to collapse the government if May decides on that course. Their gamble will be that with the Tories ahead in the polls, they can get enough seats to enable no deal or cause enough chaos to cause accidental no deal. Thus forcing out One Nation Tories from the party.

One the other hand if May does not soften Brexit, rumour has it that 20 ministers including several cabinet, will walk. There is talk of cabinet ministers supporting a second ref and of others supporting Nick Boles proposals and demanding a free vote on the matter.

May on the other hand seemed determined to pursue plan A which is now plan B, in the form of the WA. In order to do this her plan was go for cross party talks and a compromise. The trouble is May doesn't understand what the word compromise means, because... Well see above about the two factions within the Tory Party presenting a bit of an issue to that. She felt the WA was the only way to stop the party split / stop the government collasping.

In addition to this we have Labour trying to avoid a split. Corbyn had his ridiculous starting point to cross party talks being completely impossible for May. You can't take no deal off the table if it is the table. Corbyn was essentially asking directly for a revocation or extension to A50 clause. May could not agree to that because... Well see above.

Corbyn is now talking about whipping against Grieve's amendment which sort to create a cross party consensus. Bizarrely grieves suggestion seemed to be for a minority rather than majority which rather undermined it, by Corbyn's real motivation is about his power, preventing a centre consensus and possible splits in the Labour Party.

Corbyn merely wants to be obstructive, and block everything now as he thinks May and the Conservative Party are doomed to fail and the government will fail. And arguably this is a good and sensible calculation as things stand.

May's next Meaningful vote is due on the 29th Jan. But 28th Feb is pencilled in for a general election. Meaning it would have to be called by Thursday this week.

Will it happen?

We find out, not on this thread, but the next one... Or maybe even the one after that!

PS there was a bomb in Londonderry. And there's talk of a bilateral treaty with Ireland (a euphemisms for renegotiating the GFA).

Brexit was always ultimately about NI.

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nicoala1 · 20/01/2019 15:49

Thanks for the explanations re Aus/UK wine deal folks.

Good to see a bit of lightheartedness out there too!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:50

Fox's main job was to replace all those EU 40 FTAs covering 60-70 non-EU countries with new deals to come into effect after Brexit
Or - his original aim - to get all those countries to just cut and paste, replace "EU" by "UK" in their existing deals.

Didn't happen - nearly all countries think they can drive a harder bargain with a desperate UK on its own, than they did with the EU

DGRossetti · 20/01/2019 15:51

Did any catch the Lucy Worsley "American Historys Greatest Fibs" about the American Rebellion Grin

There's an interesting section on the compromises that are visible in the Declaration of Independence ... apparently one of the authors wives wrote to him noting that for an aspiration document about freedom for all, there was no mention of women (or blacks, obviously). The response was that it was men that would have the liberty on behalf of their wives. Which I guess had some UKIPers who caught it by mistake having a little "private moment" as they imagined the glorious future they want where women, the lower classes, and damn foreigners know their place.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed any more snowflake UKIPers reporting posts on theses threads today ? Unlikely as it seems, they might have learned something from yesterdays roasting. I'd dread to think what all the chatter on here did to their Google autosearch results ....

Mrsr8 · 20/01/2019 15:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:53

Ian Dunt Retweeted Nina Schick@NinaDSchick

Needless to say - TM’s plan to strike a deal with Ireland to solve a problem on the EU’s external border won’t fly.

Kind of like when @DavidDavisMP^ said he would strike a bilateral trade deal with Germany the day after Brexit. (Lol.)^

So nothing has changed.

DGRossetti · 20/01/2019 15:53

Foxes message to the world was that if a slew of trade deals haven't been signed yet, it's because foreigners just don't really do "hard work" like the British, so must be holding things up their end.

At which point, 37 countries gave their staff the rest of the year off.

DGRossetti · 20/01/2019 15:54

Foxes ? Fox's !

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2019 15:57

re cheers on BBCQT for No Deal, I agree strongly with this comment:

Pawel Swidlicki@pswidlicki

People also cheered Gary Glitter and the outbreak of WW1

- not convinced the decibel level on BBCQT is a good basis for sound public policy

(I confess my school friends and I used to swoon over Gary Glitter 🤮)

LonelyandTiredandLow · 20/01/2019 15:57

I suspect the other 2 thirds of our trade with them will be done in the holding of ankles yoga position...

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 20/01/2019 15:58

Can I just check: is "let them drink Aussie wine" the new "let them eat cake

Grin I seriously think drinking wine and gin is the only way to get through this mess.

MarmaladeTeepee · 20/01/2019 16:04

Long time lurker but coming out of the woodwork to post as becoming desperate. You know that thing Noel Edmonds does where you tell the universe what you want and it becomes true or something like that? I'm now resorting to that.

So my plea to the universe is that our esteemed leaders grow up and issue a statement saying " We're sorry, we tried to deliver Brexit, but we can't. If we leave the EU, our country and all our people will suffer. We're sorry that you were lied to during the referendum campaign, but we cannot deliver on what you were promised. For the sake of peace in Northern Ireland, and the well-being of you all, we have decided to revoke Article 50. We will instead work on reforming the EU as a member and aim to address your concerns from within."

Hazardswans · 20/01/2019 16:06

DG my post on page three still stands...but I can post something else to check Grin

Hazardswans · 20/01/2019 16:08

marmalade I'll screenshot that and read it out everyday! Willing to try everything at this point!

billysboy · 20/01/2019 16:09

They need to get on with it

DGRossetti · 20/01/2019 16:10

We're sorry, we tried to deliver Brexit, but we can't.

The problem with that is they they are - figuratively - at the front of the advance, with a legion of bile-filled, spittle-flecked, swivel-eyed, pitchfork-waving Brexiteers behind them.

Right now, ploughing on (or "plowing" on, as we'll soon be used to spelling it) still seems a helluva a lot safer than trying to turn around and retreat back through that mob. Which way would you go ?

I've said before that whilst I really, really really would not want it. The destruction of the Tory party for the most part of the century would be one small consolation from Brexit. The other would be to see the ringleaders and their fellow travellers (so Theresa May) having to face up to the mob and explain how their "failure" was actually a realisation that they could never succeed.

Ta1kinPeace · 20/01/2019 16:11

The UK has consistently elected Kippers to the EU parliament
and then been surprised that they get ignored.

borntobequiet · 20/01/2019 16:12

I’ve never been to Ikea

Hazardswans · 20/01/2019 16:15

born have you not even been for the meatballs, salad bar, fries or pear cider? Shock

TokyoSushi · 20/01/2019 16:15

Gosh I thought the other thread was quiet, here you are, PMK!

Just a thought, would we like Keir as PM, if so would that even be possible or is JC just completely immovable?

Apileofballyhoo · 20/01/2019 16:16

and brexit has infiltrated my dreams now...

I dreamt I was on the run last night with Martin McGuinness - my sister and I had gone on a mini break to Derry and got caught up in unfortunate events. He was very calm and I was not. We went to a safe house of very good friends of his who were Indian immigrants. Still anxious thinking about it. There were also kittens in the dream - from previous threads?

In hindsight, maybe the best weapon Remain had was to highlight all the lovely middle-class benefits of Brexit ?

It's not too late.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 20/01/2019 16:17

Why do so many people want NO DEAL?

I heard this exchange last night on the radio:

Caller: There was a conclusive vote to leave. The only way to honour that is No Deal.

Nick Abbot: Why No Deal?

Caller: Well, you can’t be half in and half out. You have to be completely out.

NA: But why does that mean No Deal?

Caller: Becaue we don’t want to be half in and half out.

NA: Do you think we should leave with No Deal even if it ruins the economy?

Caller (long pause) Well...erm...I’m sure there will be tough times at first.

NA: For how long?

Caller: Maybe a year?

NA: A year? You think we’ll bounce back from it in a year?

Caller: Well, maybe five years.

NA: So now it’s five years

Caller: Look, at one time the British Empire covered two thirds of the globe.

NA: I’m not going to argue with you about that. Tell me how we’lll bounce back within five years.

Caller: (long pause) Progress

NA: Progress?

Caller: Yes

NA: I don’t know what you mean by that, please explain.

Caller: (even longer pause). Well...ok.. evolution!

Confused
DGRossetti · 20/01/2019 16:17

Incidentally, I notice Brexit threads starting to pop up on AIBU and Chat (again). Either MNHQ are off duty, ignoring any reports (or not getting any reports).

However, as an anecdote about how deep the perception of Brexit is going, there was a thread a couple of days ago about holidaying in the UK being so expensive. Quite a few posters just said "oh, why not go abroad then" ... there were about 50 posts, and "Brexit" wasn't mentioned once. So it's still not uppermost in a few peoples minds.

borntobequiet · 20/01/2019 16:20

No...I didn’t even know you could get food there. I had heard of meatballs but I thought they were in cans!
I don’t even know where the nearest one is. This doesn’t mean I don’t lead an exciting life, I do most of my shopping in Aldi. I particularly recommend their cheese.

1tisILeClerc · 20/01/2019 16:23

Apileofballyhoo
Thanks for that link a while back.

{Grin I seriously think drinking wine and gin is the only way to get through this mess.}
Having just had a couple of nice glasses of red and a nice bit of cake, with my European locals, I'm done for the afternoon.
No more sense from now on.

Apileofballyhoo · 20/01/2019 16:24

Quite a few posters just said "oh, why not go abroad then" ... there were about 50 posts, and "Brexit" wasn't mentioned once. So it's still not uppermost in a few peoples minds.

There was a where are you going on holidays thread in the last few days. I think it was mentioned once.

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