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Brexit

Westminstenders: At the point of collapse?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2019 23:30

May is in trouble. The Tory Party are in trouble.

Brexit is not in trouble, but we certainly are.

May's problem is she has no way forward.

One the one hand, the ERG will not accept anything to soften Brexit. That's an extension or Norway. Or a second ref. The story tonight emerging of Rees-Mogg as 'peacemaker' is quite the opposite. Its a thinly veiled threat saying if you do not please the ERG we will split and no longer support the PM. They will quiet simply threaten to collapse the government if May decides on that course. Their gamble will be that with the Tories ahead in the polls, they can get enough seats to enable no deal or cause enough chaos to cause accidental no deal. Thus forcing out One Nation Tories from the party.

One the other hand if May does not soften Brexit, rumour has it that 20 ministers including several cabinet, will walk. There is talk of cabinet ministers supporting a second ref and of others supporting Nick Boles proposals and demanding a free vote on the matter.

May on the other hand seemed determined to pursue plan A which is now plan B, in the form of the WA. In order to do this her plan was go for cross party talks and a compromise. The trouble is May doesn't understand what the word compromise means, because... Well see above about the two factions within the Tory Party presenting a bit of an issue to that. She felt the WA was the only way to stop the party split / stop the government collasping.

In addition to this we have Labour trying to avoid a split. Corbyn had his ridiculous starting point to cross party talks being completely impossible for May. You can't take no deal off the table if it is the table. Corbyn was essentially asking directly for a revocation or extension to A50 clause. May could not agree to that because... Well see above.

Corbyn is now talking about whipping against Grieve's amendment which sort to create a cross party consensus. Bizarrely grieves suggestion seemed to be for a minority rather than majority which rather undermined it, by Corbyn's real motivation is about his power, preventing a centre consensus and possible splits in the Labour Party.

Corbyn merely wants to be obstructive, and block everything now as he thinks May and the Conservative Party are doomed to fail and the government will fail. And arguably this is a good and sensible calculation as things stand.

May's next Meaningful vote is due on the 29th Jan. But 28th Feb is pencilled in for a general election. Meaning it would have to be called by Thursday this week.

Will it happen?

We find out, not on this thread, but the next one... Or maybe even the one after that!

PS there was a bomb in Londonderry. And there's talk of a bilateral treaty with Ireland (a euphemisms for renegotiating the GFA).

Brexit was always ultimately about NI.

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TheElementsSong · 20/01/2019 17:42

Well that will split the UKIP vote.

I would propose a publicity campaign to encourage anti-EU voters to emphasise their political feelings by putting a cross in both boxes Wink

DGRossetti · 20/01/2019 17:43

I would propose a publicity campaign to encourage anti-EU voters to emphasise their political feelings by putting a cross in both boxes

I think it's more likely to be a thumbprint ?

Hazardswans · 20/01/2019 17:44

Farage to lead new pro-Brexit party

Nooo their breeding

Hazardswans · 20/01/2019 17:46

They're*

BiglyBadgers · 20/01/2019 17:51

Nigel Farage to lead new pro-Brexit party if EU departure delayed

I think if this happens UKIP, which has been moving steadily further right, will go full on alt-right and make Tommy Robinson leader. All those currently standing firm on not allowing him in will leave to hang out with Farage leaving the way open for take over.

1tisILeClerc · 20/01/2019 18:01

{I would propose a publicity campaign to encourage anti-EU voters to emphasise their political feelings by putting a cross in both boxes}
Surely to guarantee a REALLY WELL HARD Brexit you put a cross in all the boxes?

1tisILeClerc · 20/01/2019 18:02

DGR
{I think it's more likely to be a thumbprint ?}
Now you want cats not to be able to vote?

SusanWalker · 20/01/2019 18:05

When Gatwick was closed because of the drone they were bussing some people to other airports for alternative flights and there was still chaos.

Imagine if half the airports were down.

And then you don't have your EU protections to claim compensation.

Mrsr8 · 20/01/2019 18:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 20/01/2019 18:08

Glad it has been appreciated Peverse. Sadly my leaver friend refused to watch it as "he can't even be bothered to brush his hair", which oddly didn't bother her about Boris Hmm

PerverseConverse · 20/01/2019 18:15

LonelyandTiredandLow I'm scared of scruffy facial hair but it was important to educate myself.

nuttynutjob · 20/01/2019 18:15

[[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/sunday/brexit-ireland-empire.html The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class.
With Brexit, the chumocrats who drew borders from India to Ireland are getting a taste of their own medicine.]]

MarmaladeTeepee · 20/01/2019 18:35

Nutty that article sums it all up and makes me want to weep at our leaders' complete inability to learn from our past mistakes. My only hope is if we do leave the EU that our politicians are truly made accountable. After all, as the article points out, all the other times England has behaved irresponsibly the consequences have been greater for the other countries, this time they'll be greater for us.

I live in the North East and very few people here would even dream of voting Conservative because of Thatcher and the lasting impact she had on our region. I can only hope that Brexit has the same national impact on those MPs and parties that allowed Brexit to happen.

MissMalice · 20/01/2019 18:39

PMK finally on page 13. Excited to see what could possibly be in Plan B.

BiglyBadgers · 20/01/2019 18:44

I think Plan B is to blame it all on Corbyn isn't it?

BiglyBadgers · 20/01/2019 18:45

Oh and to stamp her foot before repeating Plan A but slower and louder.

PerverseConverse · 20/01/2019 18:45

When do we get to hear Plan B?

The bad feeling on the Irish border thread is not good. Brexit is such a threat to the fragile peace process.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 20/01/2019 18:51

Interesting article here on how we got here - in this respect I agree with Cummings that the system is broken, but what to replace it with? does National Interest mean?

Hazardswans · 20/01/2019 18:55

I'm full on homemade cake.

Cake is good, cake is friend.

TokyoSushi · 20/01/2019 18:56

Do we know what time TM repeats plan A gives a statement on plan B tomorrow?

PerverseConverse · 20/01/2019 18:56

I've just seen this in another thread and can't quite believe the ignorance:

*If brexit happened tonight at midnight you woudlnt notice a single change. Life is going to be exactly the same apart from the strength of the pound and a few procedures.

Chill out. I voted remain but, even I know if we left it isn't a big drama.*

Seriously?

MissMalice · 20/01/2019 18:59

Blame it all on Corbyn was a whole alphabet ago I reckon. Plan B is tomorrow I think, not sure what time. I can’t see how it can be anything different from Plan A unless it’s to announce a GE, but then I’d have expected more leaks by now.
Also to present Plan A as Plan B doesn’t Bercow have to agree to it as the wording wouldn’t have changed?

MissMalice · 20/01/2019 19:00

I guess it depends what kind of Brexit @Perverse. The WA, probably wouldn’t notice an immediate effect (?) but No Deal in 5 hours? Err...

PerverseConverse · 20/01/2019 19:05

"A few procedures" what like flights, customs, imports, exports??

My head hurts from the sheer amount of ignorance displayed.

I didn't know what most of all this meant but I've made it my business to find out

MelanieCheeks · 20/01/2019 19:10

I work in the Civil Service. We are currently asking for volunteers for a 24/7, shift work, emergency control centre in the event of no-deal-Brexit.

I really hope it doesn't come to that, but the seriousness of the consequences should not be underestimated. It isn't just "going to be fine"