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Brexit

Westminstenders: Stalemate

958 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 20:54

After May's Meaningless Vote defeat and Corbyns Pointless Vote for Your Own Party defeat we are well and truly at Stalemate.

May has invited other parties to come and talk to her to find a compromise. Except she has so many red lines all she is asking is for everyone else to compromise whilst she gets exactly what she wants.

Corbyn made a tactical error in not initially speaking to May, so now she gets to say that its Labour who are being difficult and not wanting to work together in the national interest.

Corbyn has in addition put down the red line of saying he won't talk to May until she agrees to drop no deal. Except since no deal is the default until an alternative solution is agreed! Corbyn is expecting May to say that she would revoke if there was no alternative agreed, whilst is isn't really reasonable from a compromise point of view.

They are as bad as each other. Both too stubborn for the country to move forward. Its long been said that they were alike in this respect, but having it put to the test about which is more stubborn has the potential to destory the country in the process.

In addition to this, Leadsom has removed all other Brexit related HoC business from the schedule until after the 29th January. This is a blantant attempt to try and stop backbenchers having the opportunity to table pesky amendments which the government don't like.

The 29th January is due to be the Meaningless Vote II. Given that May has made it clear that in her head 'compromise' means 'do exactly what I want and capitulate' it looks like the Withdrawal Agreement will be represented to parliament to vote on with little change. Perhaps with a few amendments there designed to attract support, though it remains to be seen where this support will come from given the spectulator level of the rejection the HoC gave it. May's Plan is literally to run the clock down and hold a gun of no deal to the head of remain leaning MPs or to scare Brexiteers by suggesting that she might revoke or there might be an extension.

Its beyond farce.

Of course the role of the Speaker becomes paramount.

Technically speaking no bill can be presented to the HoC twice in the same parliament. Its against the rules. So how is May going to get around this, and will the Speaker indeed allow it?

The Speaker may also try and help backbenchers out by allowing amendments and motions to be tabled outside the normal rules. Normally the government alone control the majority of parliamentary time, with the opposition parties being given so many debates depending on whether they are the official opposition and then according to their size. Backbenchers don't tend to get much parliamentary time. However the Speaker's actions last week showed he was willing to be creative and bend the rules to allow backbenchers more influence and power than under normal circumstances because of the way that the Executive was trying to frustrate the house. So not timetabling any further Brexit Business between now and the 29th January seems a sure fire way to have the Government straight on course for another run in with Bercow.

So what next:

Do not forget that whatever happens May has to agree to it, or we go to no deal. Whether that be a 2nd Ref, Revoking, Staying in the Customs Union, Norway + or Any Other Alternative May has to agree to it on some level.

Backbenchers can table amendments all day long to 'guide' or put pressure on May but they may not be able stop her ultimately. Boles, Grieve, Benn and Cooper seem to be the ones to watch.

So May's stubborness is the biggest barrier and issue there is to preventing No Deal.

Corbyn, whilst he might well be very right to avoid getting sucked into May's trap, isn't helping matters with his own stubborness. His priority is party politics and stopping the Labour Party from splitting. Not solving Brexit.

There is not a shread of pragmatism nor thought for the national interest between them. Party before Country.

So we are to go through all of the last week, possibly with another vote of no confidence thrown in for good measure in another 12 days.

Won't that be fun?

OP posts:
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Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 18:40

Right let see if I'm allowed to say that.

elements 😂

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 18:41

DG if thats true Flowers for everyone then Grin

DGRossetti · 19/01/2019 18:42

How come MI5 were ready to drop the plates on Harold Wilson (or so we are told) and yet they are happy to sit back and watch this unfold ?

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2019 18:42

Social IMmobility is shocking across the whole damn globe;
although the UK is one of the worst in the EU, even the Scandinavians aren't as good as one might think

Better policies for better lives@OECD

How many generations would it take children of poorer families to reach the average #income in their countries?^^

In the OECD, almost 5 generations. 🤯

How can we increase #SocialMobility?

A Broken Social Elevator? How to Promote Social Mobility

www.oecd.org/social/broken-elevator-how-to-promote-social-mobility-9789264301085-en.htm

Westminstenders: Stalemate
lonelyplanetmum · 19/01/2019 18:42

Ukip have delusions of adequacy?

borntobequiet · 19/01/2019 18:43

Callers to Any Answers are frequently bonkers. The Beeb is bad at phone in triage.
I got through once.

DGRossetti · 19/01/2019 18:44

If MNHQ are going to delete posts which explain the unsavoury side of UKIP will they also delete the newspaper stories about said unsavoury folks

(No one make any reference to the fact that the EUs "right to be forgotten" directive would be of enormous benefit to political parties with individuals who have ... embarrassing ... pasts)

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 18:45

I held the hand of a Ukip member's wife while she cried and winced. I repeat winced because her face was bruised.

Three guesses why her face was bruised?

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 18:47

lonely they have delusions...never of adequacy because y'know ukip men are SUPER ABOVE AVERAGE. Special snowflakes that they are....

Apileofballyhoo · 19/01/2019 18:52

Does anyone have a link about the UKIPper who killed his wife and the UKIP counsellor who said he felt sorry for him?

PestymcPestFace · 19/01/2019 18:54

Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. Only the pointers have been removed, the articles are generally still there and can be found.

Only two deletions by MNHQ, so far on this thread.

NDA, super injunction or new UKIP mod?

PestymcPestFace · 19/01/2019 18:56

Following the verdict, former UKIP politician Bill Mountford told BBC Suffolk he felt "equally sorry" for both Searle and his wife, adding "these things happen".
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-44871039

PerverseConverse · 19/01/2019 18:57

From Keats, "To Hope"

"...When no fair dreams before my "mind's eye" flit,
And the bare heath of life presents no bloom;
Sweet Hope, ethereal balm upon me shed,
And wave thy silver pinions o'er my head!...

...In the long vista of the years to roll,
Let me not see our country's honour fade:
O let me see our land retain her soul,
Her pride, her freedom; and not freedom's shade.
From thy bright eyes unusual brightness shed
Beneath thy pinions canopy my head!"

Always one of my favourites.

UnnecessaryFennel · 19/01/2019 18:58

Some UKIP members are murdering bastards

I probably should point out that that link contains the transcript of the call to emergency services, which is truly stomach-turning.

PestymcPestFace · 19/01/2019 18:59

With comments, via a QC

twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1019321873518288896?lang=en

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 18:59

Note how domestic violence is often coded as domestic disputes in Ukip Land.

Whats the MN saying that DG likes when someone tells you who they are believe them?

PestymcPestFace · 19/01/2019 19:01

Hazard just like wars are coded as conflicts by people trying to sell arms. A business that should do well after Brexit.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2019 19:03

ballyhoo According to a UKIP former council leader:
“these things happen”

... things like a former UKIP councillor strangling his wife to death over several minutes, because he was having an affair and she has the audacity to leave

When he phoned up police to tell them, the murderer said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ukip-councillor-murder-latest-stephen-searle-domestic-violence-extramarital-affairs-nigel-farage-a8453121.html

Mountford describes his friend as “fundamentally a decent man 😡😡
who has found himself in circumstances beyond his control”.

He goes on to note that “domestic disputes can get out of hand”, which makes him feel
“equally sorry 😡😡 for both Steve and his now deceased wife”.
....
"I’ve been a very naughty boy” are the words Searle [after murdering his wife] used when contacting the police.

Self-infantilisation meets a bid for all-boys-together, you-know-how-it-is male bonding.

SwedishEdith · 19/01/2019 19:08

NDA, super injunction or new UKIP mod?

I've got a screenshot. Two of those things couldn't apply.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2019 19:09

The former UKIP councillor shagged his son's partner, then murdered his wife when she wanted to Leave
So he betrayed his wife and his son, then committed a cold-blooded murder and joked about it.

Not exactly "traditional British values" to return to

She posted she might not be alive much longer, suggesting she had experienced DV or at least threats of it.

Every party has some evil murdering shits, paedophiles (e.g. Greens) etc
Also a far greater number of those who commit DV

No reason to condemn the party UNLESS officials minimise and justify it
and are not then expelled

Hence why we can condemn UKIP

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2019 19:14

Of course, if those Kipper snowflakes hadn't reported hazard's posts,
then some people - especially lurkers - might never have known of these disgraceful UKIP attitudes towards DV and murder

So maybe we should thank the snowflakes for this most interesting thread digression

PestymcPestFace · 19/01/2019 19:14

Has this been sorted yet?
Corbyn’s office aware It is appalling to read, then, that one of their parliamentary colleagues is accused of violence against his wife, on repeated occasions. The allegations against this unnamed man are serious, and yet he remains a member of the Labour Party. Alarmingly, the allegations were known to the party before he stood at last year’s General Election, and yet he was still allowed by Labour to be elected by thousands of – seemingly unwitting and uninformed – constituents. Jeremy Corbyn’s office, it is understood, knew of the claims last November, and yet the MP continues to represent Labour in parliament. Understandably, some female Labour MPs are outraged and want to see him suspended from the party.

Read more at: inews.co.uk/opinion/justifiably-labour-stands-now-accused-of-sheltering-not-only-anti-semites-but-abusers

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2019 19:16

NDA - doesn't apply to the murder conviction of an adult.
That's always in the public domain

The disgraceful comments afterwards - well, probably can't effectively remove all trace of the reports in the indie, Guardian, BBC etc

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 19:17

Maybe the smarter of us know...who was behind the push for a referendum? You had the eurosceptics in the Tory party/ERG and Ukip, is that it?

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