Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Stalemate

958 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 20:54

After May's Meaningless Vote defeat and Corbyns Pointless Vote for Your Own Party defeat we are well and truly at Stalemate.

May has invited other parties to come and talk to her to find a compromise. Except she has so many red lines all she is asking is for everyone else to compromise whilst she gets exactly what she wants.

Corbyn made a tactical error in not initially speaking to May, so now she gets to say that its Labour who are being difficult and not wanting to work together in the national interest.

Corbyn has in addition put down the red line of saying he won't talk to May until she agrees to drop no deal. Except since no deal is the default until an alternative solution is agreed! Corbyn is expecting May to say that she would revoke if there was no alternative agreed, whilst is isn't really reasonable from a compromise point of view.

They are as bad as each other. Both too stubborn for the country to move forward. Its long been said that they were alike in this respect, but having it put to the test about which is more stubborn has the potential to destory the country in the process.

In addition to this, Leadsom has removed all other Brexit related HoC business from the schedule until after the 29th January. This is a blantant attempt to try and stop backbenchers having the opportunity to table pesky amendments which the government don't like.

The 29th January is due to be the Meaningless Vote II. Given that May has made it clear that in her head 'compromise' means 'do exactly what I want and capitulate' it looks like the Withdrawal Agreement will be represented to parliament to vote on with little change. Perhaps with a few amendments there designed to attract support, though it remains to be seen where this support will come from given the spectulator level of the rejection the HoC gave it. May's Plan is literally to run the clock down and hold a gun of no deal to the head of remain leaning MPs or to scare Brexiteers by suggesting that she might revoke or there might be an extension.

Its beyond farce.

Of course the role of the Speaker becomes paramount.

Technically speaking no bill can be presented to the HoC twice in the same parliament. Its against the rules. So how is May going to get around this, and will the Speaker indeed allow it?

The Speaker may also try and help backbenchers out by allowing amendments and motions to be tabled outside the normal rules. Normally the government alone control the majority of parliamentary time, with the opposition parties being given so many debates depending on whether they are the official opposition and then according to their size. Backbenchers don't tend to get much parliamentary time. However the Speaker's actions last week showed he was willing to be creative and bend the rules to allow backbenchers more influence and power than under normal circumstances because of the way that the Executive was trying to frustrate the house. So not timetabling any further Brexit Business between now and the 29th January seems a sure fire way to have the Government straight on course for another run in with Bercow.

So what next:

Do not forget that whatever happens May has to agree to it, or we go to no deal. Whether that be a 2nd Ref, Revoking, Staying in the Customs Union, Norway + or Any Other Alternative May has to agree to it on some level.

Backbenchers can table amendments all day long to 'guide' or put pressure on May but they may not be able stop her ultimately. Boles, Grieve, Benn and Cooper seem to be the ones to watch.

So May's stubborness is the biggest barrier and issue there is to preventing No Deal.

Corbyn, whilst he might well be very right to avoid getting sucked into May's trap, isn't helping matters with his own stubborness. His priority is party politics and stopping the Labour Party from splitting. Not solving Brexit.

There is not a shread of pragmatism nor thought for the national interest between them. Party before Country.

So we are to go through all of the last week, possibly with another vote of no confidence thrown in for good measure in another 12 days.

Won't that be fun?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
52
merrymouse · 19/01/2019 14:08

I think it needs to be made more clear that 'no deal' doesn't mean some brave new dawn. Just the same MPs negotiating with the same people; but without full supermarket shelves and EU nationals checking abattoirs and working in care homes.

'No deal' now doesn't stop a Norway style agreement or even the UK rejoining the EU at some point in the futures. It just puts the UK in a worse position now.

Mrsr8 · 19/01/2019 14:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

1tisILeClerc · 19/01/2019 14:20

On the basis that the EU is quite happy to tell both the USA and China to 'take a hike' if it feels bullied, it will not take bullshit from the UK.
It is of course torn as the UK is a valued friend and they want to be close allies but they will not compromise on certain things and May and co are out of their tiny minds to think they would.

UnnecessaryFennel · 19/01/2019 14:21

I love this thread. Keeps me going.

Flowers to you all.

borntobequiet · 19/01/2019 14:22

I’m just eating a chocolate covered waffle with vanilla ice cream. God knows why I wanted ice cream, but at least it isn’t snowing.

1tisILeClerc · 19/01/2019 14:28

I have an orange to look forward to. I know how to live!

Quietrebel · 19/01/2019 14:30

Having a Mon Chéri chocolate with my coffee 😁

Ta1kinPeace · 19/01/2019 14:38

Checking in while taking a break from reverse calculating six years of Corporation tax losses for an overdue client.
I know how to party Grin

Mrsr8 · 19/01/2019 14:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Apileofballyhoo · 19/01/2019 14:53

catfromjapan your post for bees made me cry. I think of how stressed and worried you all are frequently. I am stressed and worried and I don't even live in the UK.

don't want upwards mobility because it threatens them Lonelylow, DH and I were discussing that last night. Came to the conclusion that the class system is to blame. So many people thinking that those of a lower class are beneath them, and desperately wanting to preserve their own place on the ladder.

lonelyplanetmum · 19/01/2019 14:59

I'm supposed to be working from home but stopped for a herbal tea too. I found the poem I mentioned upthread.It wasn't Blake but Graves.It just made me think of how we are constantly trying to understand TMs motivations or trying to analyse and empathise with some Leave voters. We try to unravel motivations and transition from Norway to Nothing.
Yet that persistence in trying to reach a greater understanding rarely seems reciprocal.

You can interpret the poem either way I suppose.

In Broken Images

He is quick, thinking in clear images;
I am slow, thinking in broken images.

He becomes dull, trusting to his clear images;
I become sharp, mistrusting my broken images.

Trusting his images, he assumes their relevance;
Mistrusting my images, I question their relevance.

Assuming their relevance, he assumes the fact;
Questioning their relevance, I question the fact.

When the fact fails him, he questions his senses;
When the fact fails me, I approve my senses.

He continues quick and dull in his clear images;
I continue slow and sharp in my broken images.

He in a new confusion of his understanding;
I in a new understanding of my confusion.

Robert Graves

lonelyplanetmum · 19/01/2019 15:03

Also as I'm now in poetry mode... the fact that 1tis was looking forward to an Orange reminder me of this.

The Orange by Wendy Cope

At lunchtime I bought a huge orange—
The size of it made us all laugh.
I peeled it and shared it with Robert and Dave—
They got quarters and I got a half.

And that orange, it made me so happy,
As ordinary things often do
Just lately. The shopping. A walk in the park.
This is peace and contentment. It's new.

The rest of the day was quite easy.
I did all the jobs on my list
And enjoyed them and had some time over.
I love you. I'm glad I exist.

Mrsr8 · 19/01/2019 15:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lonelyplanetmum · 19/01/2019 15:08
Grin
Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 15:32

Oh poetry! I've gotten out the habit of reading poems so it's a welcome surprise.

Reported the deleted message asking if I could have clarification as to whhhyyy.

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 15:37

fennel Flowers

Quietrebel · 19/01/2019 15:41

Ok, feeling brave... I'll share something I wrote during a bout of insomnia (please be kind!)

On an island in the grey ocean,
Dreams of clear blue skies
And illusions make impression.
Clouds won't part, the shroud held firm,
Lies and cries grow loud.
Hear the crowd as reason drowns.

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 15:45

Please be kind but quietrebel's poem has started me off crying again....!!

What is going on with me and Westminster thread today?!

Quiet, obviously I found your poem very good and emotive. You Star xxx

Quietrebel · 19/01/2019 15:46

Thank you Hazard ❤

lonelyplanetmum · 19/01/2019 15:54

Hear the crowd as reason drowns.

⭐️ for Quietrebel

BiglyBadgers · 19/01/2019 16:00

Oh lovely. I'm so glad I didn't miss the poetry! Smile

Mrsr8 · 19/01/2019 16:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

1tisILeClerc · 19/01/2019 16:17

Just been listening to Any questions followed by any answers.
The questions part was OK but the UK will not get anywhere if the people on any answers are representative. Some were reasonable comments but failing in accuracy at points.
Over the 2 programmes there is still an overriding 'us against them' when currently it is 'we', and the strange concept that even though the UK created this mess the EU should be responsible for sorting it out.
The suggestion by a caller that there should be a 6 month 'pause' while the UK works out what it wants was bizarre.

SeaRabbit · 19/01/2019 16:17

DH and I were discussing that last night. Came to the conclusion that the class system is to blame. So many people thinking that those of a lower class are beneath them, and desperately wanting to preserve their own place on the ladder.
^
I agree. I blame our still having our royal family and the way people kowtow to them from the Archbishop of Canterbury upwards. And the way Cameron and Boris automatically got eased in because they went to Eton. And the phenomenon that is Reese-Mogg in his ludicrous over-large posh suits and elaborate courtesy covering up his nastiness.^

1tisILeClerc · 19/01/2019 16:19

{What is going on with me and Westminster thread today?!}
Just showing that the Westminsterenders are well rounded people.
Bit too much lunch in my case combined with far too long messing on the computer.