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Brexit

Westminstenders: Stalemate

958 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 20:54

After May's Meaningless Vote defeat and Corbyns Pointless Vote for Your Own Party defeat we are well and truly at Stalemate.

May has invited other parties to come and talk to her to find a compromise. Except she has so many red lines all she is asking is for everyone else to compromise whilst she gets exactly what she wants.

Corbyn made a tactical error in not initially speaking to May, so now she gets to say that its Labour who are being difficult and not wanting to work together in the national interest.

Corbyn has in addition put down the red line of saying he won't talk to May until she agrees to drop no deal. Except since no deal is the default until an alternative solution is agreed! Corbyn is expecting May to say that she would revoke if there was no alternative agreed, whilst is isn't really reasonable from a compromise point of view.

They are as bad as each other. Both too stubborn for the country to move forward. Its long been said that they were alike in this respect, but having it put to the test about which is more stubborn has the potential to destory the country in the process.

In addition to this, Leadsom has removed all other Brexit related HoC business from the schedule until after the 29th January. This is a blantant attempt to try and stop backbenchers having the opportunity to table pesky amendments which the government don't like.

The 29th January is due to be the Meaningless Vote II. Given that May has made it clear that in her head 'compromise' means 'do exactly what I want and capitulate' it looks like the Withdrawal Agreement will be represented to parliament to vote on with little change. Perhaps with a few amendments there designed to attract support, though it remains to be seen where this support will come from given the spectulator level of the rejection the HoC gave it. May's Plan is literally to run the clock down and hold a gun of no deal to the head of remain leaning MPs or to scare Brexiteers by suggesting that she might revoke or there might be an extension.

Its beyond farce.

Of course the role of the Speaker becomes paramount.

Technically speaking no bill can be presented to the HoC twice in the same parliament. Its against the rules. So how is May going to get around this, and will the Speaker indeed allow it?

The Speaker may also try and help backbenchers out by allowing amendments and motions to be tabled outside the normal rules. Normally the government alone control the majority of parliamentary time, with the opposition parties being given so many debates depending on whether they are the official opposition and then according to their size. Backbenchers don't tend to get much parliamentary time. However the Speaker's actions last week showed he was willing to be creative and bend the rules to allow backbenchers more influence and power than under normal circumstances because of the way that the Executive was trying to frustrate the house. So not timetabling any further Brexit Business between now and the 29th January seems a sure fire way to have the Government straight on course for another run in with Bercow.

So what next:

Do not forget that whatever happens May has to agree to it, or we go to no deal. Whether that be a 2nd Ref, Revoking, Staying in the Customs Union, Norway + or Any Other Alternative May has to agree to it on some level.

Backbenchers can table amendments all day long to 'guide' or put pressure on May but they may not be able stop her ultimately. Boles, Grieve, Benn and Cooper seem to be the ones to watch.

So May's stubborness is the biggest barrier and issue there is to preventing No Deal.

Corbyn, whilst he might well be very right to avoid getting sucked into May's trap, isn't helping matters with his own stubborness. His priority is party politics and stopping the Labour Party from splitting. Not solving Brexit.

There is not a shread of pragmatism nor thought for the national interest between them. Party before Country.

So we are to go through all of the last week, possibly with another vote of no confidence thrown in for good measure in another 12 days.

Won't that be fun?

OP posts:
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JustAnotherPoster00 · 19/01/2019 12:55

I desperately hope we dont have a PV I really dont think its the way forward, those of us that are aware of the situation will of course vote remain but for those that arent engaged I see them getting swayed by the lies the Leave side will once again spout because there is no reason or immediate consequence to them spouting shit again

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 12:58

swedish MN didn't email to tell me. I was wondering if I put my foot in it without realising but I'm glad you don't know either! My conclusion was it was just not in keeping with the tone or something...

Hazardswans · 19/01/2019 12:59

Oh and while we're bullying mrs into parliament does anyone know if there's time for her to reg as standing as an independent? Grin

DGRossetti · 19/01/2019 13:01

swedish MN didn't email to tell me.

Email them and ask ? (I did this on the post I had deleted and got an answer).

Just accept that "spirit of the site" is a pretty universal catch-all, and it inevitably can present as bias sometimes ....

1tisILeClerc · 19/01/2019 13:02

{I really think you should become an MP Mrs8. You would be amazing.}
I would say MEP rather than MP, you would at least be among more friends. Not complaining about lemon drizzle but you could come back with more recipes!
I don't see Labour or Tory really getting to the heart of the matter. Both have had a chance to in the past and been found seriously wanting.
Neither have really got the 'best for everyone' idea right.

Mrsr8 · 19/01/2019 13:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

golondrina · 19/01/2019 13:19

placemarking

Mrsr8 · 19/01/2019 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Icantreachthepretzels · 19/01/2019 13:21

It’s Andy Serkis reprising Gollum as Theresa May.

The trouble with this clip is I find Gollum absolutely adorable and heartbreaking. That video just made me feel some sympathy for TM - and she is not deserving of my sympathy. But I just wanna give Gollum a cuddle - he is so tragic.

Mrsr8 You should do it! go on go on go on go on go on!

Quietrebel · 19/01/2019 13:25

Yep, I think Andy Serkis has too much affection for his character and that transpires even though he wants to savage TM here!

Quietrebel · 19/01/2019 13:30

Gollum is the very definition of a tragic character: flawed, fallen and sacrificed in the end so catharsis can be achieved.
Mind you, brexit has all the ingredients of a 21st century Shakesperian tragedy.
Richard III, Macbeth... and now TM?

1tisILeClerc · 19/01/2019 13:30

{I'll whip up a crumble instead leclerc}
Definitely gets my vote then!

Icantreachthepretzels · 19/01/2019 13:32

Yep, I think Andy Serkis has too much affection for his character and that transpires even though he wants to savage TM here!

It really doesn't say anything good about TM that Gollum is deemed to lovable to portray her accurately, though. Grin

Mrsr8 · 19/01/2019 13:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Quietrebel · 19/01/2019 13:37

A deal a deal my kingdom for a deal!

Quietrebel · 19/01/2019 13:38

Or rather my kingdom for brexit...

borntobequiet · 19/01/2019 13:45

Graham Brady on Any Questions (Sat repeat) with scathing analysis of Corbyn’s behaviour which I’m sorry to say I largely agree with.

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2019 13:48

Often trying to understand the Leavers shifting stance

It's not shifting though.

That's the point.

It's clinging onto an idea they adopted - leave - for dear life. It's like a comfort blanket. Things might have changed but the concept of thinking leave is better hasn't. It's just sticking to that and justifying it by any means necessary.

OP posts:
Mrsr8 · 19/01/2019 13:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

apricotjam389 · 19/01/2019 13:52

Happy Crossover Day, everyone. Demographics have automatically turned us into a Remain nation. Smile

MissMalice · 19/01/2019 13:53

I think a PV preceded by a campaign to take no deal off the table could work for me.

Ta1kinPeace · 19/01/2019 13:56

I've just posted a thought about the possibility of Revoke on a side thread ...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3483568-Revoke-Article-50-pick-a-date-by-the-links-in-the-chain?

Happy to have my logic deconstructed
but did not want the sweepstake of dates to get lost in these fast moving threads ....

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 19/01/2019 14:00

Leave will just do what they did before. It worked then. It'll work now

Is there anyway to stop the lies? Fining any policians that lie etc.

SwedishEdith · 19/01/2019 14:02

Yes, I think another ref would be, erm, difficult. But maybe there's a strategy in just raising it as it focuses MPs minds to come up with something?

Ooo, yes, hazard, email and ask.

PerverseConverse · 19/01/2019 14:07

I'm happy to make a crumble. Rhubarb crumble and custard. Good old fashioned comfort food. No idea what to cook for dinner so might just have crumble and custard!

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