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Brexit

Westminstenders: Stalemate

958 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 20:54

After May's Meaningless Vote defeat and Corbyns Pointless Vote for Your Own Party defeat we are well and truly at Stalemate.

May has invited other parties to come and talk to her to find a compromise. Except she has so many red lines all she is asking is for everyone else to compromise whilst she gets exactly what she wants.

Corbyn made a tactical error in not initially speaking to May, so now she gets to say that its Labour who are being difficult and not wanting to work together in the national interest.

Corbyn has in addition put down the red line of saying he won't talk to May until she agrees to drop no deal. Except since no deal is the default until an alternative solution is agreed! Corbyn is expecting May to say that she would revoke if there was no alternative agreed, whilst is isn't really reasonable from a compromise point of view.

They are as bad as each other. Both too stubborn for the country to move forward. Its long been said that they were alike in this respect, but having it put to the test about which is more stubborn has the potential to destory the country in the process.

In addition to this, Leadsom has removed all other Brexit related HoC business from the schedule until after the 29th January. This is a blantant attempt to try and stop backbenchers having the opportunity to table pesky amendments which the government don't like.

The 29th January is due to be the Meaningless Vote II. Given that May has made it clear that in her head 'compromise' means 'do exactly what I want and capitulate' it looks like the Withdrawal Agreement will be represented to parliament to vote on with little change. Perhaps with a few amendments there designed to attract support, though it remains to be seen where this support will come from given the spectulator level of the rejection the HoC gave it. May's Plan is literally to run the clock down and hold a gun of no deal to the head of remain leaning MPs or to scare Brexiteers by suggesting that she might revoke or there might be an extension.

Its beyond farce.

Of course the role of the Speaker becomes paramount.

Technically speaking no bill can be presented to the HoC twice in the same parliament. Its against the rules. So how is May going to get around this, and will the Speaker indeed allow it?

The Speaker may also try and help backbenchers out by allowing amendments and motions to be tabled outside the normal rules. Normally the government alone control the majority of parliamentary time, with the opposition parties being given so many debates depending on whether they are the official opposition and then according to their size. Backbenchers don't tend to get much parliamentary time. However the Speaker's actions last week showed he was willing to be creative and bend the rules to allow backbenchers more influence and power than under normal circumstances because of the way that the Executive was trying to frustrate the house. So not timetabling any further Brexit Business between now and the 29th January seems a sure fire way to have the Government straight on course for another run in with Bercow.

So what next:

Do not forget that whatever happens May has to agree to it, or we go to no deal. Whether that be a 2nd Ref, Revoking, Staying in the Customs Union, Norway + or Any Other Alternative May has to agree to it on some level.

Backbenchers can table amendments all day long to 'guide' or put pressure on May but they may not be able stop her ultimately. Boles, Grieve, Benn and Cooper seem to be the ones to watch.

So May's stubborness is the biggest barrier and issue there is to preventing No Deal.

Corbyn, whilst he might well be very right to avoid getting sucked into May's trap, isn't helping matters with his own stubborness. His priority is party politics and stopping the Labour Party from splitting. Not solving Brexit.

There is not a shread of pragmatism nor thought for the national interest between them. Party before Country.

So we are to go through all of the last week, possibly with another vote of no confidence thrown in for good measure in another 12 days.

Won't that be fun?

OP posts:
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Hazardswans · 18/01/2019 19:08

bigchoc i could happy cry at that times article....

PerverseConverse · 18/01/2019 19:08

Watching C4 news and just had a close up of Gove's nasal hair 🤮

Hazardswans · 18/01/2019 19:09

And then I get annoyed because I read the whole thing....

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 19:12

Dept of Health & Social Care Policy paper:Getting medication

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/getting-medication/getting-medication

The government is working with pharmaceutical companies, suppliers, and the NHS to make sure patients continue to receive the medication they need if the UK leaves the EU without a deal.

Around three-quarters of the medicines and over half the devices and one-use medical products (such as syringes) that the NHS uses, come into the UK via the EU.

The government has analysed the supply chain, made plans to reduce the risk of disruption,
and given instructions to pharmaceutical companies to ensure that they have adequate stocks to cope with any potential delays at the border. 😱

We are confident that if everyone does what they should do, the supply of medicines and other medical supplies will be uninterrupted in the event of exiting the EU without a deal. 🤥 🤯
< does the govt need sectioning ? >

MissMalice · 18/01/2019 19:16

A little weekend treat for those Bercow lovers out there...

twitter.com/guardian/status/1086241440336957441?s=21

Sostenueto · 18/01/2019 19:16

I'm absolutely not worrying myself stupid about what its. As I've said before I've already thought about the worst. Know what it could be and know I will cope somehow because at the end of the day you do gave to cope no matter what. So relax everyone. What will be will be. We will all get through it. And those not living in this country don't have to worry unless the EU starts running out of things and BTW I think you will find Germany may be in a bit of a state especially if they are asking us not to leave. Expected recession heading Germany's way I hear!

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 18/01/2019 19:18

Lonelyandtiredandlow that isn't the way GE work.

People will vote on other issues not just Brexit.

I think Lonely makes a good point. It isn’t how elections usually work (or is it? I imagine a lot of people do actually vote pretty much on single issues - immigration, securing a referendum on the EU. for example) These are far from usual times. As Lonelyandtired says, in a GE if everyone who wants to Remain we’re to vote for the only party committed to Remain we’d stand a very good chance of ensuring we Remain. Whilst I completely understand people have very valid reasons for not wanting to vote for a particular party right now, surely avoiding a crash-out and possibly staying transcends those reasons?

There will be other GEs. There will be other opportunities to tell those parties what you think of all their other policies. If there is a GE now this is it for EU membership. No more chances. And it’s entirely possibly that whatever horrors you see in other LIBDem or Green policies will seem as nothing compared to the horrors of No Deal.

Sostenueto · 18/01/2019 19:19

It would help if people stopped stockpiling because they are worried about meds. It actually causes shortages even when there wasn't any to begin with!Hmm

Mrsr8 · 18/01/2019 19:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

icannotremember · 18/01/2019 19:20

Know what it could be and know I will cope somehow because at the end of the day you do gave to cope no matter what. So relax everyone. What will be will be. We will all get through it
PLEASE tell me you just forgot the /s

Hazardswans · 18/01/2019 19:22

does the gov need sectioning

They are endangering themselves and other people. Hmmmm.....

Wink
Mrsr8 · 18/01/2019 19:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BiglyBadgers · 18/01/2019 19:25

I hope wiser heads persuade him against agreeing to a GE flush his head down the loo until he sees sense

Corbyn has said over and over that he wants a GE. It's in the blooming plan for Labour. If May turns round and says "fine have your GE" he can hardly say no.

Really, I know lots of people on this thread have a lot of reasons for hating Corbyn but his insistance in pushing for a GE right now makes me more furious than anything else he has done.

GirlsBlouse17 · 18/01/2019 19:27

I thought Theresa May was a Remainers. Why is she so stubborn and prepared for us to go down the road of no deal? Has it all been a grand plan of hers to panic us so much that people change their mind and beg to remain in the EU?

Sostenueto · 18/01/2019 19:28

missmalice thankyou for Berkow link brill!Flowers

PerverseConverse · 18/01/2019 19:29

It's very difficult to stockpile medication you take daily as depending on the drug doctors pres to r one months supply at a time. I might get away with requesting a request after 3 weeks but some drugs will be questioned if you start needing more of them. I had to fight to get enough painkillers to last me a month for example. My preventer inhaler is made locally so I'm not worried about that. Am going to go through my medication tomorrow to see what's made here and what I need to worry about.

I can't imagine the fear that insulin dependent diabetics must be feeling. When I was nursing in hospitals we didn't have massive stocks of insulin because of shelf life. There are different types of insulin, one type does not fit all, so we can't suddenly manufacture it here. Very worrying times.

UnnecessaryFennel · 18/01/2019 19:29

I'm feeling very Brenda-from-Bristol about the prospect of a GE.

It's got Tory Majority written all over it. More No Deal maniacs and fewer dissenting, collaborative voices.

Wonderful. Can't wait.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 18/01/2019 19:29

Singing Bab - thank you - I thought on it and realised perhaps I am in a minority thinking Brexit is more important than politics atm - in fact if the last yrs have been anything to go by it means politicians get a free pass to ignore anything going wrong in the actual country - so the best way to get back to that is to take away the distraction of leaving.

However, I am somewhat resigned to no one actually recognising the remain % are strongest for knowing what they want, let alone any politicians wanting remain to actually club together to sort anything out within the small window left to us. So if we have to suffer it, I almost
hope it is short but severe so we don't have to go through anything like this in living memory.

Violetparis · 18/01/2019 19:30

GirlsBlouse17 Theresa May is a Tory above anything else and ensuring power for her party is her priority.

Sostenueto · 18/01/2019 19:31

mr8As I have 4 life threatening conditions I can say with great experience what I want as you often do too and none of which I said was offensive. I only pointed out a fact.

Hazardswans · 18/01/2019 19:38

The fact is last year the Gov should have advised home stockpiling of medications if it wanted to carry on with brexit.

A government killing people over a shitty lied filled referendum is the problem not patients.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 19:40

sos They are asking for emotional reasons - not everyone has ulterior motives
Somehow, Germany has always felt Britain is a close ally and many now feel very sad at losing a friend

Both the Uk and EU will experience harm from No Deal, but the UK's harm will be Armegeddon sized, unprecedented self-harm - I can't think atm of any comparable example in history

Germany will experience only limited damage, because the ecinomy is so strong

Sostenueto · 18/01/2019 19:40

A fact which was pointed out on BBC news tonight.

MyNameIsArthur · 18/01/2019 19:41

Theresa May is a Tory above anything else and ensuring power for her party is her priority.

But if she screwed the country over by taking us out the EU without a deal, I don't think the electorate would forget this in a hurry. I think the Tories would not be forgiven for doing this and would not be in power for a very long time

Sostenueto · 18/01/2019 19:42

That should have been attached to post before it.