Westminstenders: Stalemate

[RedToothBrush]

After May's Meaningless Vote defeat and Corbyns Pointless Vote for Your Own Party defeat we are well and truly at Stalemate.

May has invited other parties to come and talk to her to find a compromise. Except she has so many red lines all she is asking is for everyone else to compromise whilst she gets exactly what she wants.

Corbyn made a tactical error in not initially speaking to May, so now she gets to say that its Labour who are being difficult and not wanting to work together in the national interest.

Corbyn has in addition put down the red line of saying he won't talk to May until she agrees to drop no deal. Except since no deal is the default until an alternative solution is agreed! Corbyn is expecting May to say that she would revoke if there was no alternative agreed, whilst is isn't really reasonable from a compromise point of view.

They are as bad as each other. Both too stubborn for the country to move forward. Its long been said that they were alike in this respect, but having it put to the test about which is more stubborn has the potential to destory the country in the process.

In addition to this, Leadsom has removed all other Brexit related HoC business from the schedule until after the 29th January. This is a blantant attempt to try and stop backbenchers having the opportunity to table pesky amendments which the government don't like.

The 29th January is due to be the Meaningless Vote II. Given that May has made it clear that in her head 'compromise' means 'do exactly what I want and capitulate' it looks like the Withdrawal Agreement will be represented to parliament to vote on with little change. Perhaps with a few amendments there designed to attract support, though it remains to be seen where this support will come from given the spectulator level of the rejection the HoC gave it. May's Plan is literally to run the clock down and hold a gun of no deal to the head of remain leaning MPs or to scare Brexiteers by suggesting that she might revoke or there might be an extension.

Its beyond farce.

Of course the role of the Speaker becomes paramount.

Technically speaking no bill can be presented to the HoC twice in the same parliament. Its against the rules. So how is May going to get around this, and will the Speaker indeed allow it?

The Speaker may also try and help backbenchers out by allowing amendments and motions to be tabled outside the normal rules. Normally the government alone control the majority of parliamentary time, with the opposition parties being given so many debates depending on whether they are the official opposition and then according to their size. Backbenchers don't tend to get much parliamentary time. However the Speaker's actions last week showed he was willing to be creative and bend the rules to allow backbenchers more influence and power than under normal circumstances because of the way that the Executive was trying to frustrate the house. So not timetabling any further Brexit Business between now and the 29th January seems a sure fire way to have the Government straight on course for another run in with Bercow.

So what next:

Do not forget that whatever happens May has to agree to it, or we go to no deal. Whether that be a 2nd Ref, Revoking, Staying in the Customs Union, Norway + or Any Other Alternative May has to agree to it on some level.

Backbenchers can table amendments all day long to 'guide' or put pressure on May but they may not be able stop her ultimately. Boles, Grieve, Benn and Cooper seem to be the ones to watch.

So May's stubborness is the biggest barrier and issue there is to preventing No Deal.

Corbyn, whilst he might well be very right to avoid getting sucked into May's trap, isn't helping matters with his own stubborness. His priority is party politics and stopping the Labour Party from splitting. Not solving Brexit.

There is not a shread of pragmatism nor thought for the national interest between them. Party before Country.

So we are to go through all of the last week, possibly with another vote of no confidence thrown in for good measure in another 12 days.

Won't that be fun?

SingingBabooshkaBadly apologies if my post sounded critical. I didn't mean it that way, was trying to be hopeful that there is a majority of people who are opposed to no deal. I'm not sure what to think any more.

Miss Malice

That thread is so despressing. I only read as far as the poster who thinks Brexit will only affect the middle classes and the wealthy and that as their family is only just scraping by now it’s won’t affect them at all.

Another one thoroughly depressed by that thread Miss Malice. Loads of people hoping for a house price crash too.

I don't understand how people can't see the linkages between things.

Food is more expensive = less money to spend on treats and tradesmen.

A company goes out of business. 1000 people lose their jobs. 1000 people are no longer spending money in the wider community on treats and services.

Food shortages in the shops = panic buying and possible unrest.

House prices falling does not mean you can suddenly afford them in combination with all the other problems we'd be having.

Etc. Etc.

Even if your job is unaffected, you could still face problems in the wider community.

Violetparis No worries I just thought I’d hadn’t expressed myself properly as Brexit has turned me into a gibbing wreck... and there was a majority opposing No Deal as Remain took the largest share of the - admittedly tiny - vote.

I do also think that in some ways it’s good for us to see that there is a significant number who would support No Deal (dare I say, only because they don’t really understand it? Is that me being elitist?). The greater the perceived threat of No Deal the less the chance of complacency among Remain supporters in the event of a PV

Magical thinking ...

Anyone else feel that Treeza is like a wasp stuck in a bottle ?

I think she's more like one of those wasps that keeps bashing up against the window pane despite the fact the window is open and if it just turned a little bit it could fly off free into the wide blue yonder.

{If only they could also offer the same to those of us in the UK who are also currently EU citizens and would like to remain that way.

My thoughts exactly.}
Mrs May is too busy being hostile and scheming to consider those who are are not just living unknowing whether they will lose their jobs, but those who are terrified of being deported either as a deliberate policy or because the HO are incompetent (as if).
UK laws are not set up for it but a 'class action' against the Home Office/UK government taken out by the 3 Million and the 1.5 Million in Europe for unnecessary stress should be considered.

Why am I so gobsmacked at Boris blatantly lying today about Turkey joining the EU. It's totally knocked me for six. I just can't get my head around an elected representative standing up, looking the public in the eye and denying saying something which they were recorded saying on numerous occasions. It just blows my mind.

I chose wasp in a bottle (quite aside from the homicidal rage the noise induces) because it's a by-product of the fact the wasp can't see up, and is therefore unable to see the way out. It's subsequent death, and the elimination of it's genes from the future species is entirely due to a flaw in it's design. There's also the fact that a wasp in a bottle isn't natural - it's there by some sort of design. (In this case, Treeza's own)

A wasp that keeps hitting an open window is merely a stupid potential victim of accident.

I try to be forensically accurate in my analogies .

Yes - weird logic, assuming that you will always somehow scrape by. The homeless are not managing to scrape by, are they?

the world does seem to be suddenly full of people claiming they knew all along they were voting for No Deal when this clearly isn’t the case as No Deal was never pushed as an option during the campaign

They’ll argue that they voted Leave and no deal is leave at its purest.

The thing is no deal sounds simple and easy. We just Leave, we keep our £39 billion (or however much it is). And everything else stays the same. Rookie don’t seem to realise that - no, everything else doesn’t stay the same. Exports drop as tariffs are put in them, imports become more expensive as tariffs are out on them. People get made redundant as business relocate.

I seriously doubt anyone batting of no deal has given it more than 5 minutes thought.

Mother The statement to which you referred: that the UK and EU have agreed the full text of the WA

just means that both sides have agreed to put this before their Parliaments etc for approval

So May and the E27 leaders have agreed the text and signed,
BUT
the WA still has to be approved by the HoC and by the European Parliament

Until it has been approved by those 2 parliaments, it won't be a legal treaty
(the EP would approve it, because Barnier has been keepig them up to date all along; the HoC is the roadblock)

I think people keep thinking of No Deal as the equivalent to both partners walking away after a divorce without maintenance or anything
A so-called clean break.
btw, why men particularly seem to like No Deal, as they find it easier to walk away in such circs.

That brings it down to an experience that most people can understand, but the whole divorce analogy is completely flawed,
most particularly in the consequences of "just walk away"

Bollocks, Boris always said he would lie in front of a bulldozer

the world does seem to be suddenly full of people claiming they knew all along they were voting for No Deal

The "reasoning" strategy has always been a seamless segue from one Thing to another, and frequently more than one (often contradictory) Thing at a time, and at every stage whatever the current Thing is, has always been the Thing.

A wasp that keeps hitting an open window is merely a stupid potential victim of accident.

Oh, I was definitely going for stupid potential victim of an accident as I don't think there is anything planned about the current mess she is in, neither does she have the excuse of a functional inability to change course. She is just being stupid and stubborn and refusing to look to either side of her to see the way out. Not because she couldn't look, but because she won't. Oh and she is determined to sting anyone foolish enough to try and help her out.

You see I can be forensically accurate in my analogies as well

Do we have any idea/inkling what politics and the will of the people will be concentrating on post a no deal brexit?

If so many want no deal what's the vision their putting forward? I don't get it... all I see is strife and dwindling services.

Hazards discrediting the opposition.

Check what Bannon has been up to in other places.

I'm heading off into conspiracy theory here.
I fear a trade deal with the US will ultimately be the most expensive thing ever.

Oh and she is determined to sting anyone foolish enough to try and help her out.

You win .

However, maybe the solution is to put Treeza in a bottle ?

Speaking of bottles (bear with me ...) having gotten into homebrewing and distilling, DW and I have found that while screw top bottles are OK for a few uses, the caps eventually weaken and are no use. You can buy special plastic twist caps to go over the thread, but even they will weaken eventually.

Enter the flip-top (remember Grolsch ?) bottles. Perfect in every way, and likely to last for decades if not centuries.

Now jump across the kitchen and see that chez Rossetti, we have ditched all those **ing tupperware containers where various bits deteriorate and stop working (that's before you start thinking about plastic leaching into the contents). Our cupboards boasts an array of assorted kilner jars. Possibly one of the most perfect designs ever.

Somehow, I can't help but feel an extreme Brexiteer would be made up if he saw such old-fashioned low-tech in place of nasty modern plastic. It's a metaphor ....

I just can’t believe people think it won’t affect them.

I mean, unless you’re entirely financially independent and live self sufficiently, there are potential impacts, surely? Your job might be secure but if your customers’ jobs aren’t secure that’s going to impact your business. You might weather the price increases but then you’ve got less to spend elsewhere - that will affect the businesses you would have spent at and along the chain is bound to affect you somewhere. Public services will be affected - that’s going to affect you - whether directly as an NHS user or indirectly when crime rates rise because investment in the young is cut.

How are people so short sighted?

{If so many want no deal what's the vision their putting forward? I don't get it... all I see is strife and dwindling services.}
I have been asking this on various threads for months, apparently it doesn't need an answer and that I am despicable for asking.
The fact that on 30 March the UK will need to know if there will be an work on Monday and if so what they will be doing seems beyond comprehension.

And who knew wasps can't look up?

It's not they can't look up, more their "eyes" (remember they are compound ...) aren't able to "catch" the light from the opening above them. The really cannot see the way out.

That said, don't knock compound eyes. When all the money that's been spunked on pretend AI runs out, we'll revert back to using insect vision as a model for developing machine vision (again). Spider eyes are particularly fascinating.