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Brexit

Westminstenders: Stalemate

958 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 20:54

After May's Meaningless Vote defeat and Corbyns Pointless Vote for Your Own Party defeat we are well and truly at Stalemate.

May has invited other parties to come and talk to her to find a compromise. Except she has so many red lines all she is asking is for everyone else to compromise whilst she gets exactly what she wants.

Corbyn made a tactical error in not initially speaking to May, so now she gets to say that its Labour who are being difficult and not wanting to work together in the national interest.

Corbyn has in addition put down the red line of saying he won't talk to May until she agrees to drop no deal. Except since no deal is the default until an alternative solution is agreed! Corbyn is expecting May to say that she would revoke if there was no alternative agreed, whilst is isn't really reasonable from a compromise point of view.

They are as bad as each other. Both too stubborn for the country to move forward. Its long been said that they were alike in this respect, but having it put to the test about which is more stubborn has the potential to destory the country in the process.

In addition to this, Leadsom has removed all other Brexit related HoC business from the schedule until after the 29th January. This is a blantant attempt to try and stop backbenchers having the opportunity to table pesky amendments which the government don't like.

The 29th January is due to be the Meaningless Vote II. Given that May has made it clear that in her head 'compromise' means 'do exactly what I want and capitulate' it looks like the Withdrawal Agreement will be represented to parliament to vote on with little change. Perhaps with a few amendments there designed to attract support, though it remains to be seen where this support will come from given the spectulator level of the rejection the HoC gave it. May's Plan is literally to run the clock down and hold a gun of no deal to the head of remain leaning MPs or to scare Brexiteers by suggesting that she might revoke or there might be an extension.

Its beyond farce.

Of course the role of the Speaker becomes paramount.

Technically speaking no bill can be presented to the HoC twice in the same parliament. Its against the rules. So how is May going to get around this, and will the Speaker indeed allow it?

The Speaker may also try and help backbenchers out by allowing amendments and motions to be tabled outside the normal rules. Normally the government alone control the majority of parliamentary time, with the opposition parties being given so many debates depending on whether they are the official opposition and then according to their size. Backbenchers don't tend to get much parliamentary time. However the Speaker's actions last week showed he was willing to be creative and bend the rules to allow backbenchers more influence and power than under normal circumstances because of the way that the Executive was trying to frustrate the house. So not timetabling any further Brexit Business between now and the 29th January seems a sure fire way to have the Government straight on course for another run in with Bercow.

So what next:

Do not forget that whatever happens May has to agree to it, or we go to no deal. Whether that be a 2nd Ref, Revoking, Staying in the Customs Union, Norway + or Any Other Alternative May has to agree to it on some level.

Backbenchers can table amendments all day long to 'guide' or put pressure on May but they may not be able stop her ultimately. Boles, Grieve, Benn and Cooper seem to be the ones to watch.

So May's stubborness is the biggest barrier and issue there is to preventing No Deal.

Corbyn, whilst he might well be very right to avoid getting sucked into May's trap, isn't helping matters with his own stubborness. His priority is party politics and stopping the Labour Party from splitting. Not solving Brexit.

There is not a shread of pragmatism nor thought for the national interest between them. Party before Country.

So we are to go through all of the last week, possibly with another vote of no confidence thrown in for good measure in another 12 days.

Won't that be fun?

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Hazardswans · 18/01/2019 15:14

FFS.

Earlier there was no EU meeting or cross party talks just cabinet small meeting groups.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-update-theresa-may-deal-vote-general-election-second-referendum-corbyn-a8733956.html

Westminstenders: Stalemate
Mrsr8 · 18/01/2019 15:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hazardswans · 18/01/2019 15:18

mrs when I read that I just want to pack us up and leave the country. To tired of shite.

1tisILeClerc · 18/01/2019 15:25

{Like all the posters who sit back and tell us all "how it is in Europe" based on the picture on a postcard they received from an Aunt in 1987.}
My Usborne French book shows the locals on bicycles wearing berets and stripy jumpers with a string of onions around their neck. So far I am the only one with a stripy jumper but there are a lot of Citroen 2CV's around, particularly in the warm weather.

{The genie is well and truly out of the bottle.} Is that Genie or Gin?

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 15:30

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
Chancellor Merkel’s Brexit tsar:

Axel Dittmann@GermanyonBrexit
And we agree with @MichelBarnier yesterday in Lisbon: If the UK wants more far-reaching relationship we are open to it.

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RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 15:33

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/01/18/week-in-review-a-circular-firing-squad-of-stupidity
Week in Review: A circular firing squad of stupidity

Ian Dunt. Just Ian Dunt!

Westminstenders: Stalemate
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RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 15:40

Nick Gutteridge @nick_gutteridge
Commission spokesman: "President Juncker spoke PM May on the phone. It was an exchange of information on both sides. The two agreed to stay in touch." Illuminating...

I suspect this is an example of 'if you've got nothing good to say'.

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borntobequiet · 18/01/2019 15:40

I've spent much of my professional life supporting young people who have screwed up big time, made poor decisions, didn't put in the work, alienated those who were trying to help them and blamed everyone but themselves. I've helped them complete the coursework (I once put someone in detention for three days to do this), use suitable resources to fill in the gaps in their knowledge and prepare for exams. I've done this patiently and kindly and only rolled my eyes and sighed when no one could see me.
I think I know how Merkel and her Brexit tsar feel.

DGRossetti · 18/01/2019 15:43

Anyone else feel that Treeza is like a wasp stuck in a bottle ?

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2019 15:45

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 15:45

Jon Worth @jonworth
So @fraumalonda sarcastically asked me why there was no #Brexit diagram today.

Because nothing much has happened was my sort of reply...

But then I reckoned a very special addition was necessary in the top right of the diagram. Now Version 5.3

twitter.com/jonworth/status/1086287793104568320

Do have a look at the flow chart, if only for the special Boris part.

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1tisILeClerc · 18/01/2019 15:49

Ian Dunt. Just Ian Dunt!
I think he's overestimated the situation.

Hazardswans · 18/01/2019 15:52

I normally find flowcharts soothing that one really conveys the mayhem...

1tisILeClerc · 18/01/2019 15:56

Motheroffourdragons
Yep, 26 just arrived in my inbox.
In the speech by Mr Verhofstadt linked earlier he said the EU will never abandon any EU citizens and we are not 'pawns'.
If only the UK could say so so openly and get that aspect signed off.

IsobelKarev · 18/01/2019 15:59

In the speech by Mr Verhofstadt linked earlier he said the EU will never abandon any EU citizens and we are not 'pawns'.
If only the UK could say so so openly and get that aspect signed off.

If only they could also offer the same to those of us in the UK who are also currently EU citizens and would like to remain that way.

MissMalice · 18/01/2019 16:00

If only they could also offer the same to those of us in the UK who are also currently EU citizens and would like to remain that way.

My thoughts exactly.

Violetparis · 18/01/2019 16:06

I'm not sure if radio phone ins give us any accurate sense of opinion. As always there is a big silent majority who just want a quiet life.

Mrsr8 · 18/01/2019 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BollocksToBrexit · 18/01/2019 16:09

I signed up to get all the email alerts from the government about stuff on Brexit - thanks LeClerc for pointing me in the direction.

Please could you point me in the right direction? I've looked back through the thread twice and can't find the signpost.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2019 16:12

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

BollocksToBrexit · 18/01/2019 16:12

Thank you

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 18/01/2019 16:18

Violetparis. Of course, it was just a radio phone-in. I didn’t wish to suggest I thought the results would be exactly replicated in a PV but I did think it interesting than none of the other Leave options scored more than a handful of votes and that the world does seem to be suddenly full of people claiming they knew all along they were voting for No Deal when this clearly isn’t the case as No Deal was never pushed as an option during the campaign.

Forgot to mention earlier, PV was also offered as an option and came third behind Remain and No Deal.

Hasenstein · 18/01/2019 16:19

.

DGRossetti · 18/01/2019 16:24

the world does seem to be suddenly full of people claiming they knew all along they were voting for No Deal when this clearly isn’t the case as No Deal was never pushed as an option during the campaign.

Pretty certain analysts of times gone by would point to that as significant ... when people start "misremembering" the past.

In this day and age, you should be able to easily call someone out on a fact like that. But as we know, Brexiteers don't have time for facts from their own side, let alone the other.

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