Why didn't we get facts like this in advance?

[Somewhereovertheroad]

HMRC projects additional Brexit red tape will cost UK businesses £6.5 billion/year. NHS estimates cost of satisfying new visa requirements on behalf of staff at £490 million/year.
*
That's nearly £7 billion in annual Brexit costs, or close to the £9 billion we pay as EU members!*

Why wasn't the homework done so we could have known things like this in advance?

assuming it's true

{Not really, no. We are 1 of 27. If all 26 other states voted against us then what?}
Maybe you should find out how the EU works?
The non elected central 'core' deliberate over possible rule changes and ideas. This is passed to the debates by all the MEPs who thrash it out and put the points of all 28 countries across. Eventually a working 'law' or treaty is put to the vote, at which point individual countries can veto or make amendments that they feel can't be used in their country. This is then taken to the individual countries where SOVEREIGN parliaments UK in this case) ratify it and put it into UK law. It is then down to the UK to 'police' that law.
Quite democratic really.
It does depend on MEPs staying awake and being present in Brussels during debates. A certain Mr Farage was noticeably absent for many debates which may suggest why some things were not to the UK's liking.

There is also the aspect that having been debated by 28 countries with quite widely varying opinions that any laws proposed are likely to be pretty reasonable.

It will definitely be true. HMRC are very careful that they can substanitate any figures that they issue.

Weetabix - we could cross that bridge when we come to it. There’s no crystal ball.

No. You all voted remain to keep what the EU was in 2016.

Tell me what it will be in 5,10,20 years time. Then I'll tell you if the penny has dropped.

But I don't need to tell you what the EU will be in 5,10,20 years time, the point I was trying to make, was that this was not the only opportunity to vote, the people who told you that , had no democratic right to do so, they lied when they said this would be the only opportunity to vote on this subject. You chose to believe them, I chose not to believe them because they were lying

Why should we assume the U.K. will always get its own way. Is the U.K. the equivalent of a 2 year old?

I'm not asserting that the UK should always get it's own way. I accept that as part of 27 countries it can't. It was you saying we have a veto. But we don't have a veto over every decision - so if the EU wants to take a decision that the UK fundamentally disagrees with ultimately it could be imposed upon us?

We don't have a veto on every decision just the important ones.

We are only on the losing side 2% of the time so we don't really need a veto for every thing do we?

At which point we could leave. But we’re not at that point. Why cut off our nose over what might be.

That's not a bad record. Is it worth thrown all the benefits away because 2% of the time you lost?

Depends what issues the 2% involved. Also depends what future issues we might lise on??

But you said we have a veto - so how can we lose? Presumably us voting no (veto) stopped the decision going ahead?

Give us an example Weetabix of a decision that the UK has fundamentally disagreed on, where it has then been imposed on us ? Which has absolutely no benefit to UK citizens ?

But why make a costly, long winded, damaging decision to leave before any of that happens? If there’s a deal breaker then have a referendum 🤷🏻‍♀️

Weetabix - we could cross that bridge when we come to it. There’s no crystal ball

Too late then though isn't it? When we are faced with say the imposition of an EU army and the EU has implemented a new law requiring all member states to comply.

Last time I checked we still have the pound. And we’re not in the schengen area.

Yes we might lose sometimes. We might not always get our own way.

So what?

That is how relationships work. I don't think cooperation and compromise are dirty words. I think working with our neighbours to build consensus is a good thing.

I am prepared to lose some battles to win others because that is what grown ups do.

We are only on the losing side 2% of the time so we don't really need a veto for every thing do we?

But you said "We have a veto" but now it's only for important decisions? Who judges what are "important"?

A series of less important decisions might have a whopping great big impact on us. And you can't reassure me that cannot happen.

The hypothetical European army would probably work in the UKs favour. Most European countries look up to and respect the British army.

If it happens and if we are in the EU we would in a probability have a disproportionate influence and get our own way on a lot of decisions pertaining to the hypothetical army.

Although, we shouldn't really engage in discussions of hypotheticals.

At which point we could leave. But we’re not at that point. Why cut off our nose over what might be.

Because it's bad enough trying to extricate us now. The longer we are in the worse that will get.

Seems to me that many remainers actually just want to bury their heads in the sand and ignore leave this for future generations to unpick.

I said we had a veto and then I clarified with more detail. My apologies if this has caused so much confusion. I posted quickly. Several other posters clarified and made clear the situation in relation to the veto.

Mea culpa.

To avoid all doubt my post implied we have a veto for everything when we do not. QMV is often applied. I was wrong *Weetabix has correctly pointed out the implication of my initial post was wrong.

Is that ok?

I hope future generations can compromise and cooperate.

The hypothetical European army would probably work in the UKs favour. Most European countries look up to and respect the British army.
In your opinion. In my opinion this is my red line. Any possibility that it might happen is not one that I will accept.

And might be hypothetical right now. But too late when it is a definite.

With the state of Trump and Putin a European army is a damn good idea for a whole host of reasons.
Many European countries exercise together anyway.

Anything that did not fit the Brexit agenda was Project Fear. Not to mention the NI border issue- it was not going to be a problem and everything would be resolved over tea in an afternoon!!!

Do you have similar strong feelings about NATO?

Compromise and cooperate great.

Sign our ability to make decisions for ourselves away - no.

And don't start saying but we can etc etc.

No we can't. If this shit storm doesn't prove anything else it does prove exactly how much we have given over to the EU because of how difficult it is to remove ourselves.

But Weetabix the UK has already signed up to a European defence strategy ( rapid deployment in times of crisis ) which we will remain in regardless of whether we are in or out of the EU. Plus NATO.