Why didn't we get facts like this in advance?

[Somewhereovertheroad]

HMRC projects additional Brexit red tape will cost UK businesses £6.5 billion/year. NHS estimates cost of satisfying new visa requirements on behalf of staff at £490 million/year.
*
That's nearly £7 billion in annual Brexit costs, or close to the £9 billion we pay as EU members!*

Why wasn't the homework done so we could have known things like this in advance?

assuming it's true

What has happened since 2016 has shocked me though. This has just been an unmitigated disaster. Is that by accident or design though?

Incompetence and a nasty thing called reality.

No not reality. Yes to the incompetence.

It should have been managed better. How has it taken so long to get to this point? Even if May had done this before Christmas it would have given another month.

If they had no clue as to how to handle the negotiations or to solve the GFA then why on earth did they embark on this in the first place?

There was insufficient attention paid to world events. Granted some have unfolded in a more dangerous way since the initial referendum as Trump was not actually in power. There is no way that May should have triggered A50 as it is blindingly obvious if you took a global view that if the UK really wanted to leave then that was not a good time.Trump in the USA, the war in Syria and so on all make the world more dangerous than it had been for many years beforehand. If you want to go out for a walk, would you chose an 'ordinary' calm day or during a blizzard? Of course you can't predict the future with complete accuracy, but you have to prepare at least.

"Will of the people", apparently. Leavers wanted to "take back control"

The thing that has always mystified me is this:

1. Before the Scottish Indy ref there was a detailed document explaining the pros, cons and cost. It ran to several hundred pages setting out what leaving the U.K. would entail for Scotland. It dealt with everything from the economy, currency etc. It was so detailed that one paragraph even explained that Scotland would have an independent entry in the bloody Eurovision Song Contest.

1. By contrast we had a brief leaflet on half a side of A4 before this ref . Then even after the decision was made the govt still provided zero information and fought tooth and nail to keep the impact assessments of leaving completely secret.

What a contrast!

And now what that leaflet rather than whitpaper has lead to is a leave situation where people voted on what they wanted to happen as opposed to any plan of any form.

And if I remember rightly project fear got ripped right into that Scottish independence document

If they had no clue as to how to handle the negotiations or to solve the GFA then why on earth did they embark on this in the first place?

Arrogance & stupidity, it's never been done before and finding a way to extract ourselves out of 45years of ever closer economic and security/ defence co-operation (plus GFA) in only 2 years, should never have been attempted.

It was a huge mistake and if we had any real political leadership, our MPs/Gov would cancel it, say sorry and call a GE, a party can then campaign in do it all again, lets see how far they get now we all know what a mess it all is.

Sometimes in life, you just have know when to quit

@lonelyplanetmum That is exactly my point.

Where was the business plan.

If you turned up at a bank looking a loan for a car or a mortgage you would need more facts and figures than that leaflet!

and why did nobody with any clout question that in a meaningful way?

Why did voters vote to leave if they didn’t know what the repercussions would be? Or couldn’t even imagine that there would be a price to pay?

Why did remainers vote remain? What were you voting for?

Costacoffeeplease
Leavers tell us they were fully informed and voted accordingly.
I would still like to know what plans they had to replace the job losses when industry shuts down and moves to the EU but it appears to be secret.

As a Remainer I voted for life to continue and looked forward to progress with world issues being handled by the EU.

Because politicians didn't take it seriously, the public did.

Why did remainers vote remain? What were you voting for?

A continuation of my right to move freely within Europe should I choose.

Freedom to purchase goods from Amazon.de without having to pay any border fees.

Clean air (since the government actively tries to avoid its binding legal obligations her, and people are ill and dying as a result).

The desire to keep our services industry going and successful/keep our place at the worlds 5th largest economy.

Access to Erasmus.

Access to EU funds for poor areas since the Tories couldn’t give less of a shiny shit about them.

Access to EU universities (because they’re cheaper) for my children.

Access to potential German apprenticeships for my kids too.

Continued recognition of judgments automatically across Europe, and a settled process for allocating jurisdiction over new cases.

Security, peace and freedom.

Why did remainers vote remain? What were you voting for?

I live 20 minutes from the border in Northern Ireland.

I can be in Dublin in 2 hours.

The Good Friday Argreement was the best thing to happen in Northern Ireland possibly ever!! It transformed our lives.

The status quo weetabix

So the best thing about remaining in the EU is that you can leave here?

So all of the reasons you voted remain - continuing for how long?

You say things to stay the same - that simply wasn't going to happen.

You have no guarantees that EU policies would continue unchanged.

Can I ask - I did not agree with having a referendum in the first place. I did not vote for the party that promised a referendum if they won the election. However, they did win.

The referendum asked in or out. It didn't give terms of out though.

Given all of the above what choices did I have? Either vote in the referendum or not vote.

I didn't want to be asked the question in the first place but I also didn't want to vote remain so that leaves me either voting leave or not voting.

I don't know what should be done now. It is an appalling mess. It just should not have got to this point if the politicians can not be sure that a decent outcome can be achieved for the UK. That being said I still do not agree with the institution that the EU has become nor what it has the potential to become.

Ucangourownwoo

Do you all honestly believe that the EU circa 2016 is how it will always stay? Of course it won't because it isn't the same as it was 20 years ago.

The status quo is meaningless. What plans do they have for the next 5 or 10 years?

I think it's great when Leavers and Remainers can have a sensible discussion about all of this and suspect had we done a bit ore if this before the referendum we might not be in this mess.

Weetabixandshreddies you say I did not agree with having a referendum in the first place and I didn't want to be asked the question in the first place but I also didn't want to vote remain so that leaves me either voting leave or not voting. but say you felt compelled to vote "Leave". Can I ask, if you didn't want to vote remain why did you not want a referendum, and what would you like to have happened instead?

{The status quo is meaningless. What plans do they have for the next 5 or 10 years?}
Rather than your snide comments, how about something constructive?
Of course the EU changes, everything changes. Just because you are bitter and twisted about something, others might appreciate things more and some are mightily pissed off that you want to take things that we have got away from us.

Yes the EU changes but we had a veto. The things on the Leave side's version of Project Fear are unlikely to happen.
EU army - requires everyone to agree to it, we didn't. It's more likely to happen if we leave!
Turkey joining the EU - not going to happen without some major regime change in Turkey.
Oh, and why wouldn't I want to pool resources with other countries in security, research and loads of other areas! But most importantly, in a globalised world economy we are in a MUCH stronger bargaining position with the US and China when we are part of a large block.
I also value my environment, the food quality we currently have and money being giving to regions (many of which voted leave for some reason) which have been neglected for decades by successive governments (probably because they are not 'swing seats'.
I also value the idea of cooperation instead of Europe disintegrating again.

So all of the reasons you voted remain - continuing for how long?

Until such time as the UK in agreement with the other 27 countries, through the council or via the directly elected members of the EU parliament, decide to change whatever it is for whatever reason justifies the change at that future point.

But they made it very clear that this was a once in a lifetime vote

Weetabix Which of course they had no reason or right to do. Tell people this is it, this is the only vote you will ever get and you have backed them into a corner emotionally and rationally. Add to the mix the stupendously brilliant 'Project Fear' campaign and well the rest is history