Irish border solution

[PerverseConverse]

Does anyone have one??

No matter how many times I go over brexit in my head, on here, with friends, in the news, on the internet, I can't figure out how on earth the Irish border issue is going to be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.

Is there a solution (other than no brexit?)

Rival kingdoms before the Norman invasion as far as I have read.

Rival "kingdoms" yes, hence Dermot Mc Murrough looking for help from the Norman, Richard de Clare aka Strongbow

PerverseConverse
Rival kingdoms before the Norman invasion as far as I have read.

Gosh, suddenly you know quite a lot about the island

Switzerland and Norway aren't in the EU and they seem to be able to work it out.

Surely this has been debunked by now. Norway and Sweden both have FOM for workers. They DO have a hard border for customs checks which requires lots of border infrastructure and vehicle searches, which is not appropriate for the NI border where there cannot be border controls.

Juells why the attitude? I've spent this weekend learning the history of Northern Ireland in an attempt to understand the border issue more clearly. I also read a little about the ROI. It's been interesting and informative. If I don't know about a subject I like to find out about it. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

@beanaseireann I think it may be worth noting that Britain was also invaded and conquered by the Normans prior to heading over to Ireland.
Pesky Normans.
Really we should blame the French/Scandinavian countries for this mess.
This is irrelevant to the here and now where the Tories/DUP have basically disenfranchised the majority of the NI population and ensured that our schools and health care system are at breaking point.

BWatchWatcher I guess some will always hold the current generations accountable for what happened over 800 years ago. Some will never move on. We can't change our history but we can shape our future and we did that with the GFA, which is why I'm so concerned that brexit is a threat to that.

Feels like May's deal would have been a good starting point. I don't see any way to do it though without causing friction between the two sides.

I have not checked who was the real author of May's WA 'deal' although I suspect it was largely the EU teams because the UK simply weren't doing anything constructive. This is probably why 'everyone' in the UK does not like it.
It is of course NOT a full deal. The only bits that are defined are citizens rights, the 'exit bill' and one other that escapes me. All the rest is essentially a 'roadmap' which shows all the treaties and agreements that will have to START being negotiated after it is signed off. This is the 'transition period' which is proposed to be a couple or 3 years but could be extended. it is of course not as good as staying in the EU, and it never could be because the UK is leaving and non members don't get the cake. It is however workable as nothing collapses on 30 March and the EU are very happy to move negotiations forward. If the UK continues to bugger around, it will cost the UK dearly so it is in the UK's interests to get it's arse into gear.
The EU gets paid it's subscription, life continues until new agreements get sorted out.

At last!! Clerc and I hold a smilar view - that the WA is a 'roadmap' through the transition period needed to Brexit in an orderly manner. Hopefully, the HoC will also find similar agreement soon.

{ Hopefully, the HoC will also find similar agreement soon.}
Sadly I doubt that many have read and understand it.
Probably on a point of principle that the UK team didn't write it all and it is 'giving' a lot away to the EU it is a 'hard sell', but in over 2 years the UK team did not write anything that would satisfy the EU's 4 pillars.
The irony being that if it was say Portugal leaving, the UK would be screaming that it was too lenient. The WA is beyond the limits that some EU members wanted to allow, but they were 'strongarmed' into signing up to it by others. This is why it will not get altered in any meaningful way. It has also been run past the lawyers in all 27 countries to make sure there are no loopholes.

Whatever clerc - rather than being pessimistic and disdainful, I choose to remain positive that our elected representatives will be a lot more acquainted with the WA and the various consequences that can follow by various courses of actions by next week.

Anyway, this is a thread regarding the RoI/NI border (very, very important issue) and I apologize to OP for swerving off that. Clerc is a very prolific Brexit poster who usually holds views quite the opposite of mine and it was 'nice' to agree for once.

Reminds me of that line from Home Alone: " You be optimistic. I'll be realistic."

So far, no solution to my OP. I hope those in charge come up with one and very quickly. I still can't see any way for Brexit to happen and the GFA to be upheld.

HateIsNotGood
Thank you.
I was 'Remain' but over this process I see that unless some 'epiphany' happens that the UK should not be in the EU. This does not mean that I want it to crash out which is why I see the WA as one of the best routes to achieving it.
The EU needs all members to put their best efforts into the project as a whole but as it stands a significant part of the UK is not prepared to give that commitment.
The biggest issue for the UK is that without being in the EU it needs a new 'best buddy' as the trade is truly global and the UK is far too small to go it alone. David and Goliath may work in a religious text, but not in international trade. This is of course made a lot worse in that so many companies operating in the UK are not from the UK.
Germany is concerned about it's trade, but it is well over double the capacity of the UK and is not thinking of leaving the EU. This should ring alarm bells. I would love the UK to do brilliantly, but I just can't see where it might come from, especially taking away industry, manufacturing and financial when it leaves.
Anyway, as you say, this is the 'wrong' thread.

Clavinova
Having just read that the IRA and 'new' IRA have an estimated turnover of £50M in illegal business, including drug dealing - the border question probably has quite a lot to do with criminals not wanting their illegal activities checked.
That's a very ignorant and offensive comment for those of us from Ireland who are very concerned about the border situation. I suggest you do some research about the issues around the border.

I think it may be worth noting that Britain was also invaded and conquered by the Normans prior to heading over to Ireland.
Pesky Normans.

I suspect a bit of family tree research/DNA analysis would reveal that the UK population is still being ruled by those pesky Normans.

My solution (if it would ever have anything to do with me)would be to make an exceptional rule for the RoI/NI border for Brexit that preserves GFA and keeps as is.

Rather than finding reasons why we can't, why can't we say - this is what we want to do.

{My solution (if it would ever have anything to do with me)would be to make an exceptional rule for the RoI/NI border for Brexit that preserves GFA and keeps as is.}
I think this has been mentioned by the EU a long way back in that the cross border trade is not huge in total EU terms so a basic form of 'allowing' trade might have been possible.
However, leaving the EU and going to WTO rules means that a border IS necessary as defined by the WTO which is not a 'friendly' organisation. We are trying to assemble a jigsaw puzzle that has parts from 5 different pictures, thus nothing really fits.

That's pretty much what the EU suggested, Hateisnot. It's just the DUP don't want that. And you'll hear a few Scottish people being unhappy about it too.

Not sure about the Tories real feelings on the matter.

The main 'issue' with the border is the DUP being hypocritical saying that NI must not be an 'exception' in some respects to the rest of the UK, while at the same time having exceptions for Vetinary regulations and some laws.

As 1tisILeClerc said, it's not possible under WTO.

The DUP want to have their cake and eat it it seems,

Omg - have just read in the press that they’re apparently (have to put that in because you can barely believe anything theses days!!) genuinely discussing amending the GFA - what fricking planet do these people live on?!!! I just despair....as I assume (/hope?!) the rest of the country do too at this point😫

How will Theresa May actually be able to control immigration through her withdrawal agreement?

If Norway + is the only solution that respects GFA that will require FOM in return for continued membership of the single market. TM says she doesn't want us to remain in the single market so what type of agreement is she working towards?

How would she even be able to stop any EU nationals entering the UK through the Irish Republic if we did leave the single market?

None of it makes sense to me.

mocha70 that's what I said to my mum the other day: people will enter the UK via the ROI although will be a harder route to take but those determined and/or desperate enough will try.

She can't unilaterally amend the GFA. I'm hoping that's just reckless journalism. Very dangerous even if "just" reckless journalism considering the car bomb last night.

Only a few days ago people spoke of the potential for civil unrest and now we have a car bomb in NI, and yellow vests in Leeds. This is just the beginning unless the government stop fucking about and get their act together. People's lives are at stake and I'm fucking angry we have been put in this position.

Radio4's Today programme had an Irish politician to talk to the news that the Plan B to be brought before parliament today will be some 'tinkering' with the so called backstop.

While the presenter kept interrupting, so that i could hardly hear what was said, it didn't sound like much progress, certainly no knock out new idea. Maybe because there isn't one?