Irish border solution

[PerverseConverse]

Does anyone have one??

No matter how many times I go over brexit in my head, on here, with friends, in the news, on the internet, I can't figure out how on earth the Irish border issue is going to be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.

Is there a solution (other than no brexit?)

[Juells]

Cabinet sources have told Sky News that Theresa May made clear she was ditching efforts to seek a cross-party compromise.

Well that didn't last long, did it? Was it even a week?

Now she has a new cunning plan: Ditch the Irish backstop. Change the GFA that took years to negotiate.

I can't believe how the media and politicians have let the electorate by the nose - chant a new mantra and steer them in the direction they're to go. The latest one is 'respecting democracy'. Before that it was 'the will of the people'. All empty words. But voters swallow them.

How can you trust these clowns? news.sky.com/story/brexit-tweets-mps-cant-delete-shown-on-billboards-11609810

[Apileofballyhoo]

If Fine Gael (the party of the current Irish government) give one inch, there's a strong likelihood of them being finished as a political party - abandoning our citizens in the north is an oft-flung accusation at their predecessors.

Now I'm sure that's not their main incentive, but it's a point none the less.

[Juells]

They'll never live down the shame of how Thatcher stitched up Garret.

[FinallyHere]

Ah, it was Vice President of European Parliament, Mairead McGuinness interviewed on the Today programme. Mentioned that there would be no question if any bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK, that Ireland stood with the EU

The presenter's interruptions were embarrassing but I was glad that she held her point clearly and calmly, including that the WA had been agreed between EU and UK some time back so that there was no question of changes.

Wonder what May will think up next. I saw upthread a suggesting of changing the GFA. Sigh.

[Juells]

She keeps coming up with bright ideas, doesn't she? None of which have any connection to reality. She's so focused on pacifying the DUP that she doesn't care about the rest of the population of NI, never mind the island of Ireland. She'll happily send us all back to the worst of the Troubles, as long as she can keep the DUP onside.

[Clavinova]

Rdoo
Clavinova
Having just read that the IRA and 'new' IRA have an estimated turnover of £50M in illegal business, including drug dealing - the border question probably has quite a lot to do with criminals not wanting their illegal activities checked

That's a very ignorant and offensive comment for those of us from Ireland who are very concerned about the border situation. I suggest you do some research about the issues around the border

I wasn't going to post today, but in view of your comment I have done some research - I don't think my observations are entirely without merit. You are of course correct that my knowledge of the border question and Northern Ireland in general is very limited.

Northern Ireland fuel fraud boosts fortunes of ex IRA terrorists
Across the border in Northern Ireland, questions have been asked about why organized crime gangs are rarely jailed for fuel fraud. Until this year, no custodial sentences had been handed down for more than a decade to convicted fuel fraudsters

One British MP recently claimed the British government had secretly agreed to a “light-touch” enforcement of fuel smuggling, to help ensure a lasting peace in Northern Ireland
medium.com/@Eurobsit/northern-ireland-fuel-fraud-boosts-fortunes-of-ex-ira-terrorists-b8bf4e29e2e0

IRA now made up of criminals who never fought the British but line their own pockets;
www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ira-now-made-up-of-criminals-who-never-fought-the-british-but-line-their-own-pockets-34315771.html

One destructive legacy of the Troubles is that the terrorist godfathers have been able to use the organisational networks that are in place, combined with the fear that they engender within their communities, to line their own pockets, for whatever purpose. Keeping control of the communities in order to make money has become an end in itself
Jane Kennedy, Minister of State for Northern Ireland 2001/2
publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmniaf/978/97806.htm

2015 Fears over dissident drugs war after three pipe bomb attacks in Belfast
power struggle to become the biggest criminal gang in Belfast
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/fears-over-dissident-drugs-war-after-three-pipebomb-attacks-in-belfast-30968687.html

[Maybe83]

Clavinova if you think that is the route of the northern Ireland border issue you are very niave.

That would probably be a much easier problem to solve!

Have you ever visited northern Ireland, read any books on Irish history or more recently statements from the DUP or Sinn Feinns manifesto for example?

[bellinisurge]

If you think this is all about organised crime, you haven't been paying attention. Yes, those twats have been making money out of drugs etc. ''Twas ever thus. But GFA has kept the peace (a tolerable peace ) for over 20 years. And Brexit without the backstop fucks that up.

[Juells]

I wasn't going to post today, but in view of your comment I have done some research - I don't think my observations are entirely without merit.

Having a border suits smugglers. Surely that's obvious? With no border people are able to drive to and fro freely, fill up their cars or buy good on whichever side is cheapest.

[FinallyHere]

And if it's crime rates that you care about, detection of non terrorist crimes increased significantly once the GFA was in place. No, not because of a sudden crime wave , just that while there were guns being smuggled and bombs being made, who really cares about parking fines, drug offences and other crimes, which impact the lives of people going about their lawful business?

[Clavinova]

www.politico.eu/article/5-year-backstop-would-resolve-brexit-crisis-says-polish-foreign-minister/

5-year backstop would resolve Brexit crisis, says Polish foreign minister. Jacek Czaputowicz said a time-limited backstop was ‘much more favorable than a no-deal Brexit

[bellinisurge]

And if the E.U. shafts Ireland, every other country will feel vulnerable. I wonder whose interests would be served by such a disruptive approach......

[Apileofballyhoo]

There will be no time limited backstop. That defeats the purpose of a backstop.

[FinallyHere]

It really is a bit of a tricky one, isn't it?

[Juells]

5-year backstop would resolve Brexit crisis, says Polish foreign minister. Jacek Czaputowicz said a time-limited backstop was ‘much more favorable than a no-deal Brexit

Why doesn't he fuck the fuck off? The Telegraph now saying that he's signalling that the EU won't hold firm. If they give in on this the Irish will leave next, IMO.

[PestymcPestFace]

If the Irish leave because the UK bullied them and beat the EU. The EU (as we know it) would cease to exist.

[Apileofballyhoo]

Ireland won't leave the EU.

[Juells]

Ireland won't leave the EU.

No, I can't see it happening as things stand. People would be mightily pissed off if the EU didn't support us now though. The Polish minister should keep his mouth shut. Coveney is in Brussels at the moment, and has squashed the idea.

[Auntiepatricia]

There really is only one solution to all of this. And I’m pretty sure everyone knows what it is. But let’s dance around it for another few months and kill each other in the process.

Just in case anyone doesn’t know what I’m saying, it’s to remain either with or without another vote. Then we can all go back to our brand on toast and arguments about strictly.

[Auntiepatricia]

Beans on toast!

[Apileofballyhoo]

The only argument I have with you there is that I don't like beans on toast!

[Rdoo]

Clavinova
Being from a border area in NI I'm completely aware of the issues with organised crime. I took issue with your comment as you suggested anyone with an issue with border controls was profiteering from organised crime and didn't want to be stopped.
As someone said above if you think that's the crux of the issue you're very naive.

The Telegraph now saying that he's signalling that the EU won't hold firm. If they give in on this the Irish will leave next, IMO.
The EU was built on the idea of peace.
Ireland is a small but very loyal member state. In the latest polls 90%+ favour staying in the EU. If the EU threw Ireland under the bus when they are trying to protect peace and the Good Friday Agreement to facilitate the UK, now essentially a third party country what would that say about the EU. The very basis and foundation of the EU would be destroyed. It's inconceivable to think the EU would abandon Ireland. In any event, Leo Varadkar has said previously that Ireland would go it alone and fight for the backstop if necessary and remember, Ireland has a Veto over any trade deal with the UK.

[Apileofballyhoo]

www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ireland-faces-isolation-with-britain-as-eu-border-mooted-899457.html

Border on the continent suggested. Not discussed. Impractical.

[Imnotswallowingthat]

The UK government should just say we are not putting a hard border on the NI side, no ifs or buts. If the EU then insist on there being one on the ROI side then that is an issue for ROI and EU to sort out between them. It is not the UK's problem to solve.

[1tisILeClerc]

{The UK government should just say we are not putting a hard border on the NI side, no ifs or buts. If the EU then insist on there being one on the ROI side then that is an issue for ROI and EU to sort out between them. It is not the UK's problem to solve.}
If the UK leaves with no deal and reverts to it's WTO rules then it HAS to have a border, the responsibility of the UK.