Irish border solution

[PerverseConverse]

Does anyone have one??

No matter how many times I go over brexit in my head, on here, with friends, in the news, on the internet, I can't figure out how on earth the Irish border issue is going to be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.

Is there a solution (other than no brexit?)

[bellinisurge]

Another one ashamed and embarrassed by what this is doing to NI and Ireland.

[Apileofballyhoo]

Perverse and Bellini

Anytime you see 'the English/British' substitute it for 'the Tories'?

[Juells]

If you can watch this (outside of Ireland) it gives a very good insight into the problems that will be facing farmers in NI if the border is reinstated.

www.rte.ie/player/series/ear-to-the-ground/SI0000000488?epguid=IP000064925

A few ads to suffer through before the programme starts, but it's worth enduring them.

[Juells]

www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/sunday/brexit-ireland-empire.html?fbclid=IwAR1kW4A2Z08GjynfoRsPq_rt8ec7haT3zYz1QaUTzFLhyv_z-NndClMSeBo

[CountessConstance]

Juells I think someone (perhaps you?) linked to that article previously.

Depressing, no?

[Juells]

No, wasn't me - a friend posted a link on FB this morning. That's the first time I've seen it. Very very depressing when you think of the legacy of partition in India, Palestine, Ireland :( So many deaths.

Were you able to watch the RTE link in my previous post? That farmer talking about the first day he was able to turn left as he left his house, and the way they drove all around the local roads they'd never been able to access before... very moving. This is the reality, not the DUP trumpeting about how shocking it would be to have a border in the sea, where checks already exist.

[CountessConstance]

Juells I started to look at your link but got waylaid. Must go back.

I don't live that far North but do have family living on the border.
To the point that it made more sense for their children to be born in the local NI hospital. Their address is ROI. Their shopping town is NI.
Husband's job is ROI, wife's is in NI.

Was at a party where locals talked about exactly that....being able to go to their local town without passing a border post (in relation to Brexit- they were very worried about this 18months ago).

When we go to visit, it's significant and emotional for me to drive along a road and point out to my kids "ooh, look, there's the border....now we're in NI, oops, now we're back in ROI".

Kids have grown up with it and don't care.

Awful, awful irresponsibility and carelessness to reinforce the division of a Hard Border after 20years of peace.

[CountessConstance]

Irish Times Brexit Borderlands

I started reading this a few days ago.

What is very interesting is that
"275 land border crossings now exist between the North and the Republic – more than along the whole of EU’s eastern border."

[origamiwarrior]

Can I ask a really stupid question? Why was no one talking about this during the referendum? Surely the consequences of a Brexit vote should have known by political analysts at that time? I didn't hear a single word about this during the TV debates etc. Setting out the issue we now find ourselves in would surely have closed down any chance of a Leave vote? Why didn't all the clever strategists behind the remain campaign think of this? Why has this taken everyone by surprise?

[PerverseConverse]

@CountessConstance I can't imagine living somewhere where there were spikes in the road to prevent people crossing. It sounds like something out of a war film. What are borders like in other countries I wonder?

Horrendous.

[Mistigri]

Why was no one talking about this during the referendum?

People were talking - see for eg this talk by Prof Michael Dougan which got some traction:

www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2016/06/21/news/eu-law-expert-michael-dougan-s-video-on-brexit-risks-goes-viral-573261/

The bigger question is why weren't people LISTENING.

[PestymcPestFace]

Have just done some searching of MN.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a2635040-Does-anyone-know-why-there-is-a-raised-terror-alert-from-Irish-Republicans#61006362

There were of course other threads. Misti was talking about it, so were others. They noticed the sweeping under the carpet by the media.

If Mumsnetters were aware of the issue, why weren't media or politicians?

[CherryBlossom23]

Because, Pestymc, most of the non NI politicians in Westminster don't give one shiny shit about NI. Half of them probably don't even know the proper history of it. It costs the UK government 20 billion a year to run (UK tax payers pay 11bn); they'd probably prefer to hack it off and set it adrift into the North Sea instead. Sadly, a lot of people in the UK totally weren't aware of NI, that it was part of the UK or even what exactly it was. The ignore is truly staggering.

[CountessConstance]

@origamiwarrior many many many Irish people were very concerned about it.
Our Taoiseach (Prime Min) travelled to the UK the week before the vote, to urge anyone with Irish ties to vote Remain.
It wasn't all about our economy- we have serious concerns about the outbreak of war again in British territory on our island .

However, you could argue, why weren't British people told about so so many implications of Brexit....
that bus about the NHS money.
The daily mail judges headline...
etc etc

[origamiwarrior]

The bigger question is why weren't people LISTENING.

I can only conclude that not only were they not listening, they weren't hearing either (i.e. for whatever reason, this was not on their radar). Even if the Westminster elite didn't/don't give a shiny shit about NI/Ireland, I can't believe that had they been any inkling, they would have missed the opportunity capitalize on it in order to win their referendum.

Arrogance perhaps?

[Mistigri]

@origamiwarrior I'm inclined to think it's more complicated than that.

In the current government there is definitely some arrogance/indifference towards NI - the identity of the current Northern Ireland secretary tells you everything you need to know about that. There is also, I think, an anti-GFA thread that runs through this government. Gove was a critic of the GFA, and May went into a confidence and supply agreement with an anti-GFA party which is also the most extreme political party in mainstream British politics.

But in the wider British (ie mainland) electorate, I'm not sure you can call it arrogance. Most people under about 50 will barely have any personal memory of IRA attacks in England. If they don't live in Ireland they probably barely remember that a hard border ever existed. Most of them will never have been to NI. It probably just doesn't feel very relevant to them.

I'm interested in politics but even so I'm not sure this would have been on my radar if it hadn't been for a summer in Ireland and NI the year before the referendum.

[bellinisurge]

Half Irish here. Uk citizen. Top of my radar all through run up to the referendum. I and others posted about it on here a lot and got laughed at or dismissed as mithering abouta side issue unimportant to the main ones. Whatever they were.
I'm in a grumpy mood so I hope those posters are choking on their bullshit.