OK. Shall we Brexit?

[Miljah]

I am an increasingly passionate Remainer.

But the time has come where I think Britain needs its arse whipping. I feel deeply sad for the 16m (me) who foresaw the oncoming car crash; but I now think the best way we can shorten the agony of the next few years is to let it happen; learn, beg back into the EU, accept the Euro etc.

I can't see any other way through this.

Alpha that sums up the problem for me - the ECHR is nothing to do with the EU. One has 47 member states the other has 28. It was started by WInston Churchill ffs. Lots of people lose me in arguments when they bring that up

Partly because it means they are working on misinformation and partly because they want to leave something that was designed to stop the atrotricities of the second world war ever happening again

But the Norway deal won't satisfy leavers because it still involves free movement of people and the requirement to abide by some laws they don't even have a say in. The no deal situation is shit I agree but it's shit for the EU as well - the EU need to make more concessions so that we can exit in a way helpful to both parties. Frankly had the EU not been so arrogant in the first place and negotiated some concessions with Cameron we wouldn't have had a referendum and we would not be in this mess. That to me is indicative of how they will behave if we go back with our tail between our legs we loose any power to negotiate in the future - what then stops them from making us take the euro?

For the record I was and still am a remainer but I don't think it's right for us to ignore a democratic vote or bend to the EU now.

But the Norway deal won't satisfy leavers because it still involves free movement of people

Tough. It was a referendum about leaving the EU, not a referendum on FOM. No deal won't satisfy remainers (or a lot of leavers) who make up almost half the electorate. To be honest, it wouldn't satisfy most people, but it is the compromise that most closely reflects the narrowness of the vote.

Sorry, I meant Norway wouldn't satisfy most people.

I’d be more concerned with Corbyn in charge as he doesn’t want everyone wealthy, he wants everyone equally poor. I’m on nmw and I’m far better off under the tories than I ever was under Labour.

Corbyn won't be in charge. Firstly, hell lose the no confidence vote, and if he doesn't, 60%of Labour constituencies were leave. Labour have done nothing about persuading them to change their mind, so unless Scotland abandon the SNP, they will lose again. Even if by some miracle they win, what are they going to say to the EU? I have no idea!

I just don’t know anymore. It seems to me that no deal represents a huge danger to national security...lives will be lost through lack of medication, unrest, lack of food supply etc etc. Absolute pandemonium.

Even getting a deal, as a nation we are going to have a lot of financial uncertainty for decades. Plus, I think that Scotland will leave the UK. Relations with Ireland and Northern Ireland and England will be fractured at best. The UK,as it is now, will not exist.

But, if we were to remain in the EU now, which I think is the most unlikely scenario, we would have ignore a democratic vote and go back on our democratic principles as a United Kingdom...so where does that leave us? Certainly, there would be civil unrest - that seems likely in every scenario. Yet, overall, remaining seems like the least worst option.

That’s not me advocating to ignore the vote and remain. I’m just pointing out that overall, in terms of national security and economically it’s not as disastrous as no deal or the kind of (rubbish!) deal we are likely to get.

I also have absolutely no faith in Jeremy Corbyn. I think Theresa May is doing the best she can with a seemingly impossible task. I’m happy for her to stay in charge until a better leader emerges. Corbyn, Rees Mogg, Johnson et al cannot ever become in charge of this country. I shudder to think what they’d do to it.

You cant say the Norway deal is acceptable "tough". Free movement of people was one of the key reasons people voted to leave. The U.K. can't ignore a democratic vote and they can't make that concession

What do you love so much about the EU?

Beg the EU? You are out of your mind. Just have a look at how much other countries contribute?
We are the rich men in Europe. They need our money.

The only vindictive retaliation I have is that both have DSs (also Brexiters!!) who have either lost jobs.
Beyond words. I hope they don't know you wish them ill.

People who voted leave didn't have a choice on their voting paper saying 'why do you want to leave' they voted leave for their own reasons and if stopping freedom of movement was their reason and we go for Norway then it is tough

Whatever happens now we lose

It's common knowledge that that was one of the key reasons that people voted leave. But you have a point people did vote leave and so that's what we must do.

I’m on nmw and I’m far better off under the tories than I ever was under Labour. - how have you worked that out, @Boom76 ?

We haven’t actually left yet, why would we have to accept the Euro if we revoked A50?

"It's common knowledge that that was one of the key reasons that people voted leave"

Its common knowledge that during the Scottish Referendum that one of the key reasons people voted to stay in the UK was because we would be staying in the EU but hey ho

What we need is a better deal from the EU

Words fail me that after 2 years people still believe this shit!

We set out a series of immovable red lines, no to SM, CU FOM but still want frictionless trade!!!! never considered the Ni border and ROI concerns, we will be out of Galileo, security sharing, defence projects but no! we want access to all those too!!!

Being IN the EU is the best deal, EFTA style is the second best option anything else involves a whole heap of sub optimal compromises. which it is clear we (parliament) do not want.

I hear it down here all the time, leave MPs wanting exceptions for farming, for catering, for care homes, for hotel industry...... or the latest one complaining that there is no more EU funding for a Geo thermal project!!!

Just because stupid people tell you do something very stupid, it doesn't mean you then just go ahead and do it.

Backing of now leaves us in a vulnerable position - we will never have any power to negotiate anything ever again.

Seriously? The boat on that one sailed ages ago. We’ve spent the past 2 years we have bitched and mooned about paying a divorce bill we’re contractually obliged to ay, tried to rip up the GFA, signed an agreement about the backstop and then came out the next day saying we don’t have to uphold what we agreed to and we’ve spent the last month trying to add amendments to the WA that subvert the backstop. And that’s just the stuff that I can remember off the top of my head.

We have already irreparably damaged the trust other countries place in us when signing an agreement.

Don t think most of the UK want to accept the euro! Don t think we will end up leaving though. It will be extended then we will probably stay in. How, I don't know...

If we leave I think that's it, we won't get back in. Because our country will be sold off to the Americans, all our standards will go down drastically - environmental, workers' rights, no free health care, etc etc. We will diverge completely from the EU and will be in the control of American companies and the super rich. It won't be possible to re-join - permanent disaster. So we need to stay in now - our last chance.

If we stay in now, we stay in on our current highly preferential terms, including no Euro. We can get back to playing an important role in the direction of the EU, and be world players again. And continue to take advantage of all the great trade deals the EU has, due to its size, been able to negotiate.

I'm also worried about the high risk of terrorism that leaving will bring.