Westminstenders: Plan B is Plan A again.

[RedToothBrush]

The voting starts around 7pm and is expected to finish up between 8pm and 8.20pm.

May is expected to lose. The question is by how much.

We are then expecting an immediate motion of no confidence in the government by Labour to be put forward.

May is expected to make a speech to calm the markets and then go to Brussels for an utterly pointless visit.

The Labour No Confidence is expected tomorrow afternoon after PMQs. Its expected to fail.

We move no closer to a resolution and ever closer to no deal.

Half the Cabinet want to go into cross party talks. Half the Cabinet don't.

May is apparently insistent that Plan B is Plan A. Which is what you would expect her to tell the house to comply with Grieve IV. Which again is bollocks.

But Bercow could yet refuse to indulge it.

If Plan B is Plan A again, then what's Plan C?

Crisis with a Capital C.

The stalemate grows.

whisky apologies for last night didn't mean to be blunt, battery on phone went and my post posted only half written.

What on earth was that attack on red? It was uncalled for!

How can you present a PV with a failed WA and a remain option? Both have failed. Doesn't make sense to me or fair tbh. Even though its sensible to remain we must think of a way to get that other than a PV.

On the news in Belgium: 4 out of 5 Belgian companies that export to the UK are not ready for Brexit. In other words, they won't be able to export even if the UK customs were ready.

That was a horrible attack on Red.
Let's hope a fresh day will see cool heads

I'm daring to hope for a cross parliamentary approach to soften the red lines now. I don't want a people's vote because I agree with a PP that it absolves the govt of responsibility, when this is very much their problem. On that, I agree with Cox.

Attack on Red was bizarre.

I went to bed at 9pm last night - absolutely shattered

Grieve is tabling PV vote debates...

Got to love the irony between the post and the user name.
Similar to what was levelled at Soubry. Shows there's a complete lack of understanding of the terms as ever.

Well it is to be expected feelings running high but that was uncalled for. Like you bellinisurge let's hope it was a one off.

Ps thanks to all contributors on here for helping me understanding some of this nonsense over the last 3 years. You're all a beacon of calm, rational, decent light in a sea of shit.

Did anyone catch the old chap outside m&s in Stoke on c4 news t'other day? Pressed for his views on Brexit, he just said "I hate the French." With reasons like that, Brexit was always inevitable eh?

I wonder if it's actually now quite simple, no deal or people's vote? To avoid no deal then the choices on the people's vote are leave with her deal or revoke and remain?

Sorry - PV not PV vote

lonely t pbh I dint think Remainers have not helped themselves by telling Leavers again and again that they were stupid or ignorant and didn’t know what they were talking about.
MN is full of that.
When everytime à leaver is saying they believe that the U.K. will be better out if the eu, they are put down. Leavers got pissed off. They said so on MN too. No point arguing with Remainers, they dint listen etc...
The result is that Leavers got more and more entrenched in their views. Because pointing out people’s errors, with facts etc.., doesn’t help them change their mind (same with people who are against vaccinations for example)
It hasn’t been helped by the political discourse where the vote has more amd more been equaled with No Deal. And the fact that, as Tusk said yesterday, if no deal is out and the WA/whatever deal is unacceptable, then maybe the only option left is Remain. So there is fear there too that leaving the EU won’t happen and that they won’t have been listened to AGAIN.
The resentment is building but didn’t start with the referendum. It’s ressentment of Westminster not listening that has been building up for decades.
And that’s also why it’s so dangerous to promote staying in the EU. As noted before, the situation is perfect for the far right to take hold. In some ways, it has already done so with the ERG (with the added respectability too) and TM (for her very authoritarian ways).

I have to say I’m less optimistic now than before. We still have no opposition (see the fact MP who voted against the WA are going to give their confidence to TM ). No idea of any alternative (Even though Norway would make most peole happy). No cross party consensus because neither party are happy to support the other.
I think we are heading for a No Deal. Maybe with a few months extension but No Deal.

And bills, not debates.

Ignore me. I need to go back to bed, clearly.

David Allen Green
@davidallengreen
It is now down to those who clapped and cheered at yesterday's government defeat to work out a way of averting a No Deal Brexit.

Else they may be no better than those who clapped and cheered the Article 50 notification.

To avoid no deal then the choices on the people's vote are leave with her deal or revoke and remain? She has no deal now. So I think the only choice on a PV could be leave with no deal or remain.

.

Thanks red and everyone else for the updates.

I'm really worried about a PV. I campaigned for Remain in an area that voted Leave in 2016 and it wasn't fun. I think I would feel quite frightened to campaign now and I'm someone who is generally quite able to handle myself. But I can just imagine the level of grief and my Irish accent might not help

If there is a PV it needs seriously good planning, proper consultation on the question and time for people to understand what is being asked.

Did you see the owner of the nuts and bolts factory in Sutton Coldfield on the BBC news last night saying he was hoping for No Deal now. That surprised me. Made me think that the fear of No Deal has gone.

Leaders and camapigners for a PV can't even agree what should be on the ballot, Chukka Ummuna wants remain v no deal, an option which fills me with dread.

Chukka Ummana that should say.

Plonkysaurus I saw it and I'd bet he'd argue blind that he didn't vote leave because he's racist.

Agree Bollocks. I know many of my parent's generation like him.

katya adler
@BBCkatyaadler
Michel Barnier is selling the Brexit deal hard right now in response to last night's vote in House of Commons - outlining why he believes it's the best compromise possible while respecting UK red lines to leave single and customs union. 1

BUT Barnier reminds UK of EU promise that if it shifts its Brexit parameters then the EU will move and change too. He says this because the EU sees the prospect of a softer Brexit favoured by many MPs 2

Barnier says EU still hopes to avoid a no deal #Brexit but countries are stepping up their preparations

Made me think that the fear of No Deal has gone.

Or people have enough. 3 years with nothing that has been achieved. The whole political system showing itself for what it is (not in a good way) and general comdition worsening for most people thanks to austerity still been there, GPD going down, UC etc etc
I think for some people, it can’t get much worse anyway (or at least, it feels like it)

Also not in favour of a PV, for the same reasons I didn't think we should have had the referendum in the first place - too big and complex an issue to ask people to make decisions on. Two referenda don't make a right!

But I think that might be the way were heading - I don't see what other options are available to TM (aside from revoke which she won't do). She's got a stalemate and a PV seems to be the only way to break it. The EU have been making noises about a possible extension for the last week, and they knew she wouldn't get the WA through - is this them encouraging an extension plus vote?

The PV is a massive risk - but possibly on both sides. The leave campaign was very successful last time in getting people who don't vote to vote. But can you get people who don't vote to vote twice?