Westminstenders: Plan B is Plan A again.

[RedToothBrush]

The voting starts around 7pm and is expected to finish up between 8pm and 8.20pm.

May is expected to lose. The question is by how much.

We are then expecting an immediate motion of no confidence in the government by Labour to be put forward.

May is expected to make a speech to calm the markets and then go to Brussels for an utterly pointless visit.

The Labour No Confidence is expected tomorrow afternoon after PMQs. Its expected to fail.

We move no closer to a resolution and ever closer to no deal.

Half the Cabinet want to go into cross party talks. Half the Cabinet don't.

May is apparently insistent that Plan B is Plan A. Which is what you would expect her to tell the house to comply with Grieve IV. Which again is bollocks.

But Bercow could yet refuse to indulge it.

If Plan B is Plan A again, then what's Plan C?

Crisis with a Capital C.

The stalemate grows.

TiP I'm not relying on anything to stop Brexit
Sadly, I still think No Deal is the most likely outcome

It's just that a PV gives a much better chance than relying on May on blink at the last moment & Revoke - I don't think she would

No legal / constitutional expert has yet spelled out a legally binding way in which the HoC can order May to revoke
and only she has the legal authority to Revoke
(she just has to write a letter to the EU Commission, no Cabinet or HoC approval required)

Oh the plus side, loyalty on the red side to Corbyn is rather less fixed than on the blue side to May.

Remainers / soft leavers has to work this out. Corbyn is an obstacle here.

And possibly wreck their personal careers in the process.

red Do you think I'm too pessimistic ?

I still wonder on what basis the exasperated EU would agree to an extension of the timeline for A50? Cannot figure that out, unless time was needed to pass critical legislation to enable the WA. That ain't going to happen now.

The PV will not happen either unless there are two choices, WA or Stay in EU.

Other than that it's a total joke, and unfortunately the UK is just seen now as a load of kids in a playground. I want, I don't want, but none of them seem to know what they want or don't want either!

Junker will be on the sauce tonight. Along with the rest of us I reckon!

I think we've moved beyond TM and JC it's all up to mps and amendments. There's sensible people still there it's just none are leaders. Except of course NS at SNP.

TM looked stubborn and i thought she came across as divisive while ironically speaking about division and democracy.

The PV will not happen either unless there are two choices, WA or Stay in EU

Trouble is some people genuinely think no deal is a fabulous option. Loads of the public. There needs to be some sort of education campaign around the WTO. I know very little and I’ve actually done some googling on the subject.

I have no faith in Corbyn to cut this Gordion knot. A few weeks ago I didn’t have faith in parliament either, but they’re upping their game. Maybe they can manage it?

Irish govt agrees with Tusk that this vote increases risk of No Deal:

Simon Coveney@simoncoveney

Statement on Westminster Vote from Irish Govt. #Brexit

I hope that May will just unilaterally revoke A50 now. That is probably what she has been working towards anyway. Two sides to many faces eh?

The fear of the rise of the hard right is out there now. That is scaremongering of the highest order. Nothing could be worse that the situation facing us unless PM is decisive and makes a decision now.

I don't think anything else will work.

It's a clusterfuck (PMK)

I'm just watching the news.
Kier Starmer could not even look at Corbyn .....

Therewillbeadequarefood thing is, it would have to be compulsory education because those who really need to know this stuff have utterly buried their heads now. They genuinely are 'hard to reach' politically.
Alarmingly, they were reached for s Leave vote, and I doubt very much they've stayed in touch, or will stay in touch for education on WTO terms or what 8% or 16% drop in GDP means.

TM will revoke at last minute because she can blame all those who didn't vote for her deal as she can blame them if we run out of time with no extension and we go with no deal. Its clear EU won't help and a PV could go against us, its not a sure thing. ( sigh)

I wonder how many in Europe are dreading the possibility of revoke.
A bit like root canal work, you know it needs to happen but you would prefer not.
I accept they are saying the UK is welcome to stay officially but the state the UK is in now and for the foreseeable future will be no use to them.
Particularly as possibly 40% or more are demonstrably 'anti EU'.
A 'leaver' on another thread was hoping that if WA happened that UK MEPs would be as disruptive as possible just to annoy the EU and stop things being passed.

On Twitter:

"PaddyPower now offering 12/1 odds on food rationing this year.

Perfectly sane country."

In a word nope BigChoc.

Every one needs to identify the dangers of the different agendas here.

The party politics and individuals keeping their seats as MPs are still pulling too hard.

Anything that's not no deal requires a big sacrifice on the part of those who want to deliver it.

Do I think they will?

They will go so far. That's how it's gone all along. Trying to play the long game.

I think there's been some real miscalculating that once this was started it could be managed or somehow controlled.

Brexit always was a run away train once May did her speech with all the red lines in Oct 2016. What she unleashed, she and everyone else, really had no idea about and didn't understand. Triggering A50 just removed the last tiny bit if control.

I'm afraid I don't believe for one tiny moment that May will ever revoke unless she is forced into it by parliament and even than I'm not sure she wouldn't just ignore the will of parliament as she has done so before. She is absolutely set on brexit and nothing she has ever said or done makes me think this will change.

I don't think the PM can just revoke article 50 without some kind of democratic vote to revoke it either by parliamentary vote, a general election or a referendum . We have to show the eu that revoking article 50 is to cancel brexit and not just to delay it

Laura Kuenssberg@bbclaurak
A source on biz call with Chancellor and Business Sec says they were told govt cant renegotiate withdrawal agreement so have to look at political declaration, and has to find a way forward with MPs before asking EU for more

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
NEW: As May starts the process of trying to find another way through on Brexit, I’m told up to 100 Labour MPs will pivot to #secondreferendum tomorrow morning. Piling the pressure on Corbyn to make this his Plan B when his confidence vote fails

Robert Peston @peston
It is crystal clear from the magnitude of this defeat for @theresa_may that even if the EU had tweaked the backstop in the Withdrawal Agreement, she would not have won the vote. So the EU27 leaders will now have serious doubts about whether it is remotely possible to amend...

...her deal to get it through. One official from an EU government said to me: "I cannot see what Theresa May could actually ask from the EU that would ensure a positive vote. How will she be able to convince anyone she is able to get a...

..."majority on anything?" That is the heart of the matter. It implies that within a week or so, the prime minister will in fact have to choose between a no-deal Brexit or a referendum.

ASFAIK (being a sofa politician like all others here), there's more politiking to be had. Bercow knows his stuff, as does TM, Labour is using Brexit as an oppo to shoehorn themselves into govt; distasteful but who wouldn't and, I for one, would find JC, Peacenik, as PM ,an interesting situation.

Will the EU continue to say 'nyet' - probably - for now.

Cor Blimey Geezer - it really ain't so Grey in the UK after all - and we all think we're so boring.

Soundbite king on ITV news right now - what a muppet

That's my understanding too @GirlsBlouse17. a50 can only be rvoked if we're not going to Brexit. If we want more time and so want to extend a50, it's up to the EU whether to allow this or not. And I think it's been stated that EU will only agree to this to allow time for a GE or a PV.

I am worried May is quite capable of allowing us to end up with no deal, just to prove a point

I think MPs have fallen into the same trap as much of the public:

with no living memory, or institutional memory, or the 1910s, 1920s, 1930s & 1940s when times were really dangerous and / or desperate

MPs thought this could never change
So they just treated Brexit like any other issue and played party politics with it

Only now have maybe 400 -500 MPs realised in horror what they have all done / allowed the govt to do
and they are frantically trying to think of a way to rescue the country - and their collective reputation in history

Nearly all still feel contrained by party loyalty, party rules - and of course their own political careers - so they are all fighting with both hand tied and their feet in a sack
It's like a perverted HoC Egg & Spoon race - just needs some spanking by a dominatrix May -
but it really isn't funny

BBC news saying May has requested a phone conversation with Sturgeon tonight.

Jeremy Cliffe @jeremycliffe
What top Brussels figures in the Council, Commission and Parliament say behind closed doors: length of Article 50 extension will depend on probability of UK reaching a settled position in that time.

In other words: the People's Vote lot are the new realists in British politics.

Not sure I agree completely. It does not solve things either.