Can we have a list of all the things we will be able to do once outside the E.U. that we can’t do now

[Bearbehind]

With 11 weeks to go this should be easy but it’s clear from other threads that people still think things that have nothing to do with the E.U. will change when we leave.

Can we have a list of tangible positive things that can only happen by leaving.

jasjas1973

I'm not confused at all. I'm just fed up with people portraying EU membership as some great Utopia.

Remainers are doing exactly what leavers are accused of - misleading and exaggerating in order to strengthen your argument.

As people have said, many workers rights, as given by the UK government, are better than those legislated by the EU. There are pros and cons on each side - staying is not all beneficial either.

My only regret about leaving is the absolute god awful shambles that parliament has made of it. In all honesty, I don't see it happening now. The EU are not going to relent on their deal because they now know that the UK will remain under this offer.

If we do stay then I hope that any future MEPs disrupt proceedings as much as possible and refuse to support any legislation that doesn't benefit the UK.

I also hope that we get a UK government that going forward exerts sovereignty wherever possible rather than hiding behind the EU.

If an area's major employer closes, why should the former employees EXPECT something else to be put in it's place. You move to where there is more work, or create it yourself.

And people who can move, will move. But there are many people, in work, in poverty. Moving requires money. If you have children it isn't sensible to upsticks and move to another country with no job, no money and no home. If you need support because of ill health or another vulnerability moving away from friends and family might be the very worst thing to do and what of the many people who care for elderly relatives? Do you advocate abandoning granny in order to find a job somewhere? Honestly, you are living cloud cuckoo land if you thinking emigrating is a realistic option for everyone. You are obviously only able to think in terms of your own circumstances and lack the empathy to see how hard life is for many others.

{If we do stay then I hope that any future MEPs disrupt proceedings as much as possible and refuse to support any legislation that doesn't benefit the UK.}
Writing this only proves that you are an idiot.
Your vain hope that the UK government will make your life better, after 70 years of showing it won't, but you then wish destruction on others.
You have taken this unicorn thinking to your head.

{But there are many people, in work, in poverty. Moving requires money. }
This is of course true, but your suggestion is that SOMEONE ELSE sorts out the issue by increased benefits or something rather than them making work and increasing their income, possibly by moving.
Why should higher earners pay to support people who don't want to move to find work?
The governments of the day have failed to sort out the issues of poverty for many decades, where do you see the evidence of them actually doing this now?

And the EU has made my life better how?

My view is that the EU has too much potential control over the UK. We have a small number of votes in the EU parliament which means that officials unelected by the UK have some control over the UK. Your argument is that our MEPs can vote against anything they choose and maintain UK sovereignty so they need to start doing that. Why is that so wrong? If you support the EU then clearly you have no problem with the form of democracy that it represents or is your view that the UK should vote against it's interests in the EU parliament?

This is of course true, but your suggestion is that SOMEONE ELSE sorts out the issue by increased benefits or something rather than them making work and increasing their income, possibly by moving.

Where have I said that? Please provide me with the quote of where I have said that.

The rest of your post shows exactly what your political persuasion is.

Do you vote in the UK elections? Out of interest who do you vote for? Presumably tories given your "I'm alright Jack" view. In which case you, and all other conservative voters, are responsible for this shambles that we now find ourselves in.

I am very happy for my taxes to benefit those less well off than me. I would happily pay more in taxes as well so long as they were used to improve the health and lives of people in need.

If we do stay then I hope that any future MEPs disrupt proceedings as much as possible and refuse to support any legislation that doesn't benefit the UK.

Then I hope we have the sense to vote for MEPs other than the likes of Farage, who barely attended the EU Parliament to represent our interests. Happy to frequent the bars of Brussels, so I am told.

Aah yes. The answer for people who can't answer.

It’s the answer for people who can’t be arsed to do their own research. I’ve listed EU derived rights for too many ignorant Leavers I’m not prepared to do it again. If you’re too lazy to research your own question, it’s not my problem.

You can't simultaneously state that the EU protects the rights of workers in the UK and that when we leave we will lose those protections and also say that any lack of rights is the fault of the UK government.

Yeah you can. The EU offers workers rights that the U.K. government does not afford. When we leave those will fall away.

The hard right want a low tax, low regulation, low social protection economy. In voting for Brexit overseen by the hard right you voted existing EU and also U.K. rights down the river.

The EU offers workers rights that the U.K. government does not afford.

Or rather, to be clear, the U.K. government only affords them because the EU insists.

Or rather, to be clear, the U.K. government only affords them because the EU insists.
Apart from the rights that the UK government give us that exceed EU demands then?

EU derived rights as distinct from U.K. derived rights.

{In which case you, and all other conservative voters, are responsible for this shambles that we now find ourselves in.}
Both labour and Tories have a significant number of 'leave' voters.
The shambles I agree with you, the original questions were ambiguous and through negative press over decades the average UK voter who does not see obvious links with the EU is likely to see it in a negative light.
I note you, or indeed no one yet, has managed to suggest how the UK starts to rebuild it's economy to replace the companies that are leaving or cancelling further investment in the UK from 30 March.
If you think your life is tough now, it's going to get a whole lot tougher.
Paying for the stockpiling and other measures is costing billions. Repairs to vehicles and property if/when rioting starts will cost millions, all of which takes you further away from the idea of helping the poor. Well done!

"Apart from the rights that the UK government give us that exceed EU demands then?"

Some do, some are at the base level set by the EU.

However, there have been cases where the UK has been forced to increase its provision by the ECJ. The Equal pay act for example only guarenteed identical work, the ECJ made brought the UK legislate for equal pay for work of equal value.

There are many others including things to do with maternity rights and other working conditions.

Both labour and Tories have a significant number of 'leave' voters.

Yes but without a conservative government granting a referendum this wouldn't be happening, without a conservative government abiding by an advisory referendum and triggering A50 while woefully unprepared and without a conservative government making such a hash of this we wouldn't be where we are now so yes, Tory voters are absolutely culpable.

The Equal pay act for example only guarenteed identical work, the ECJ made brought the UK legislate for equal pay for work of equal value.

And I don't agree wholeheartedly with how that was implemented tbh. How do you define "equal value work"?

{ Tory voters are absolutely culpable.}
So Labour are all strong remain supporters who understand that the ills of the UK have nothing to do with the EU have put up strong representation to stay in the EU and in their new manifesto have listed practical solutions to the problems experienced by those in Stoke and so many areas of the UK. In staying in the EU the workers in Sunderland can sleep knowing they will probably keep their jobs, similarly other industry that is based outside the EU.
Instead we have Corbyn, who is also wanting to leave but has been sitting on the fence so long his backside must have enough splinters to look like a bog brush.

Without the conservative governments allowing and then acting on the referendum what voters want is a moot point.

The electorate can think or want whatever they like. The fact that a government chose to act on it is why we are where we are now and so yes, anyone who voted for Cameron and his promise of a referendum or for May and her taking Brexit forward are absolutely culpable.

From your politics I assume that you voted for one or the other, if not both.

In staying in the EU the workers in Sunderland can sleep knowing they will probably keep their jobs, similarly other industry that is based outside the EU.

Sorry, remind me again how many factories have closed/ jobs have been lost whilst we have been in the EU?

It was Blair/Brown's love of the EU that lost Labour the 2010 election after allowing free movement of people (that they could have controlled) and then Brown's "bigoted" woman statement. An awful lot of traditional Labour voters gave their support to other parties who were less in thrall to the EU.

Brexit/Remain ISN'T a party issue. Both main parties are split and have been for decades.

"Sorry, remind me again how many factories have closed/ jobs have been lost whilst we have been in the EU"

Conflating the two things is not helpful, it isn't EU membership that is responsible for industrial decline in the UK.

BorisBogtrotter

Exactly. Which is why I'm not conflating the 2 issues, unlike @1tisILeClerc who confidently states that

In staying in the EU the workers in Sunderland can sleep knowing they will probably keep their jobs, similarly other industry that is based outside the EU.

Staying in the EU doesn't guarantee anyone keeping any job (apart maybe from people employed by the EU!!!)

Staying in the EU would guarentee Nissan at Sunderland would be there in the long run, maybe not forever, but leaving the EU makes its long run future far more doubtful.

Nissan stated that the reason they invested in an assembly plant in Sunderland was for 2 reasons:
The UK government gave them a huge 'bung' to help overcome the mass unemployment when the coal and steel industries closed.
Secondly as a member of the EU it had totally frictionless trade with the rest of the EU.
The UK market for Nissans is far too small to be worthwhile.
When the UK leaves the EU there is no reason for Nissan to be in the UK at all as they have plants in other parts of Europe.
Likewise any other company that relies on the UK being part of Europe.
Yelling and whinging about a UK that disappeared many decades ago won't bring it back as the rest of the world has moved on.
Heavy industry brings workers to where the main materials are. The NE coast is where coal was found, so workers had to move there. They didn't sit in Kent and demand the coal came to them.

Practically, as shifting the assembly line is extremely expensive so for the immediate future Nissan will probably run at somewhere near a loss until the vehicles made are phased out. They will not invest in new models.
Similarly BMW, Honda, Airbus and many more.

Staying in the EU would guarentee Nissan at Sunderland would be there in the long run,

I don't think anything can be guaranteed. Companies will go to where it best suits them. If it becomes more profitable for Nissan to move then they will. EU or no EU.

1tisILeClerc

I notice you haven't responded to whether you voted conservative or not and are therefore just as responsible for this mess as anyone else.