Any Leavers here?

[HoyPolloy]

Been reading all these threads on here about Brexit and just wondered if anyone voted Leave?
Fwiw, I did.
If you voted Leave what do you anticipate will happen before 29/03?

Dont be shy, I can't be the only Leaver on here!

I voted leave and I would again.

The thing is, that no matter how theoretically sound the 'ideals' and process of the EU is - it's too slow really. We need change in the UK a bit quicker than the EU can deliver - irrespective of how you crunch the numbers, the effect of EU Membership on the wages of the low-paid is negative. Not positive, but negative - even stagnant isn't good enough, not after 40 odd years of membership..

Our current system of UK democracy can be very reactive and therefore quicker in addressing our local problems.

Yup, that’s democracy in a liberal society-with certain safeguards the majority gets its way

Even that's not true, almost all governments are elected on a minority ticket, even Blair was around 45% so, leave won with 36% of the electorate, hardly democratic is it?
You spout democracy but deny representation to 16m people, at least in a GE the losing side have an opposition in Parliament, remain have nothing at all.

So i don't really get what you are complaining about?

As for the millenial comment, rather childish.

Didn't think you would bother to answer my question jas - just thought you might, given you have so many explanations to give, I thought explaining your own words might be easy for you. Don't worry if you can't. I'm not bothered either.

What it means is that all the increase in wealth in future will be, via the democratic process be able to be distributed evenly amongst the population, something it patently hasn’t been in the time we’ve been in the EEC/EC/EU.

Maybe not, but it’s nothing to do with the EU.

Wealth could have been more evenly distributed before if the very people you’ve just given control back to had they chosen to.

The fact is, they chose not to and that wont change by leaving the EU.

I voted Leave and would do so again.
To those who want a second ref, what happens if leave wins again?

hate it wasn’t difficult to read jas’s post.

She was saying you don’t appear to be big on thinking, preferring to rely on feelings.

Our current system of UK democracy can be very reactive and therefore quicker in addressing our local problems.

I agree, if you take the Windrush scandal as an example, there was quite rightly an uproar from within the UK and it was abandoned, the same with Universal Credit, now on hold. We don’t have that ability on EU matters.

cushion, darien why?

What do you see Leave achieving?

{Bear behind-What it means is that all the increase in wealth in future will be, via the democratic process be able to be distributed evenly amongst the population, something it patently hasn’t been in the time we’ve been in the EEC/EC/EU.}

Seeing as the distribution of wealth in each member of the EU is down to it's SOVEREIGN government and bugger all to do with the EU you are arguing the wrong thing. Maybe a spot of homework would help rather than listening to the lies told in the Daily Fail.
It suggests that you are simply being goady to trot out the old crap that was proven to be false 2 years ago.

Leavers need to understand that successive UK governments of both persuasions have FAILED to address the closure of industry across the UK. NONE of then really care that much. They didn't then, and they are very unlikely to do now. Leaving the EU is going to cost so much that they won't be able to afford to do it now.

Calm down, i have a life.... and dinner to cook an eat!

Your posts are all about how you "feel" or "believe" with no evidence, i pointed out early what i thought of your earlier ramblings and you ignore these points, which is up to you, i don't feel the need to demand from you any explanation.
We are just randoms on the 'net with little or no influence on anyone else.

Why does the EU have to deliver quickly? They deal in trade and regulations not stuff that needs to be drawn up quickly, like say, a new referendum.

Why does the EU impact upon the wages of the low paid? Minimum wage is U.K. legislation.

I don't understand your point. Why does the EU need to deliver quickly and what does it have to do with low paid workers?

Jas - completely understand that we have "lives", but as you were live posting I thought you might explain your description of me, given you had described me, a person with a life and people to look after and feed too.

I don't demand but merely politely ask and you have explained that you find me "rambling" and just into "me" and how I "feel" and don't provide any evidence to substantiate anything I say. I think you are wrong and I have provided plenty of evidence.

We could start moving out of the economic ramifications and explanations and maybe explore the plethora of evidence that substantiates "feelings" as real and influential and maybe further explore the huge volume of information and evidence about human beings that doesn't reduce them to solely an 'economic' unit.

That's your view and you are entitled to it - I shall just suggest that we should agree to disagree.

So in that spirit HateIsNotGood could you tell me regulations and long term trade deals need to be 'reactive' and what the hell the EU has to do with the minimum wage?

hate it’s a bit rich you berating jas for not responding when you never even attempted to explain you comment about how Leaving the E.U. will help humans and humanity?

Mousse - because the situation of the UK's low-paid is something that is important to me, and I dare say the other millions of low-paid workers and 'workers in waiting' too. It might not be important to you, the EU can't deliver - and you say why should they, why should the EU act quickly anyway and why should the EU even care.

I think your lack of understanding has explained the Leave vote far better than I ever could.

Hatels - i most certainly do not believe we are economic units, far from it but without money life is very hard, most people cannot survive going without even 3 months pay without going into debt.

I was going to vote Leave but i looked at evidence, not how i or others feel, it quickly became apparent that Gove farage etc were selling dreams based on their own desires (ie Farage claiming huge amounts of expenses and pensions from EU and Gove lying about how his parents gave up their fishing business or BJ and his political ambitions)
& that the UKs long list of problems are to do with inequality and our own government's failure to invest in its peoples and industries.

All that will happen post brexit is we'll have less tax take and less to spend on our own issues.

We do do agree on that we wont ever agree though :)

The low pay of workers is a massive issue. As a trade unionist I campaign for pay and conditions of workers.

But what is the point of me petitioning the US government or the Australian government about low pay in the U.K. when it is nothing to do with them.

Don't you get it? Low pay is a massive issue. Trade Union rights - or the lack thereof - are a massive issue. But it has nothing to do with the EU.

You may as well howl at the moon.

I understand the role of the EU very clearly and I understand they don't set the minimum wage and low pay has nothing to do with the EU.

Bear - I did start to explain but my explanations don't position themselves within the narrow realms of your understandings of Brexit.
I didn't "berate" her but she made a comment about me and I asked her what she meant by the words that she had written.

It really is more than just economics.

I really do have to go now - truly am an LP with ASD DS - so not running away, but will be back tomorrow.

You know I am getting pissed off with leavers clothing themselves in the cloth of the moral high ground and banging on about the poor and the low paid when leaving the EU is going to make poverty worse, make pay and conditions worse and end up screwing what is left of the industrial working classes.

I did start to explain but my explanations don't position themselves within the narrow realms of your understandings of Brexit.

Please don’t try and avoid answering my question by patronising me.

How do you think Brexit will improve people’s lives, particularly poor people’s lives?

Mousse - waving over our parapets - yes FOM does, every report has found that there has been a negative impact on the wages of the low-paid, even if it's described as "insignificantly small" it is still a negative impact.

I'd rather deal with that in-house.

Why the hell do you think the TUC is campaigning for remain?

The TUC the one body in the U.K. that consistently supports, promotes and actually fights for workers rights. Why the hell is this organisation saying we should stay?

Because they care about workers rights and leaving the EU will mean workers are cast adrift in an unfettered capitalist economy. Let's see where your concern for the low paid gets you then.

Ffs

There are a lot of poor and unemployed across Europe, but the EU is not able to act against sovereign governments. It certainly takes note and makes recommendations but that is as far as their remit goes. You would doubtless be incensed if the Greek government dictated your rate of pay.
What the EU can and does do is through it's regeneration fund, assist particularly poor areas. This is done by a rebate on the 'membership fee' that the individual countries pay. The administration and spending of the money is done by the sovereign country and not the EU directly. This government had it's wrists slapped when it failed to pass the 'rebate' money to projects in Wales a few years back.

The EU do not decide national pay rates, leavers would be having heart attacks if EU wanted to micro manage national states to that level, jeez the mention of an EU army brings out a cold sweat.

Cornwall has super low levels of pay, yet almost zero migration... its a UK Governance issue and not a FOM issue.

We could introduce more tax bands and stop cutting corporation tax and IHT but we do not.