Any Leavers here?

[HoyPolloy]

Been reading all these threads on here about Brexit and just wondered if anyone voted Leave?
Fwiw, I did.
If you voted Leave what do you anticipate will happen before 29/03?

Dont be shy, I can't be the only Leaver on here!

@namechangechanger
Name changed for this cuz it makes me sound pretty silly. I voted leave just because it was something different, I didn't really think of what would happen either way. I wonder if any other people did this?

Yes. My best friend's boyfriend is a prolific house developer in London and gave pretty much the same reason as you for voting Leave. "I fancied a change" were his words. Just that.
HTH

Sonly- having health and safety standards, big shared projects like jasjas mentioned (eg Galileo) is very helpful.

Sure, UK could try and do it’s own but it would be more expensive (trying to set up lots of different regulatory/innovation bodies). Economies of scale. We are currently still in austerity and we want to waste more money duplicating lots of these groups? I don’t think UK would have enough of the technical skill set for some of these either... so maybe we would need to have more immigration to fulfil these roles...

Sonly - EuroFighter cost the european nations over 20 billion in the 90s to develop, treble that for its replacement.

Just to explore the feasibility of EF replacement is £2billion... wont happen, we'll buy an American design, meaning the US get the tech and the jobs, but co-op in europe means we'd keep them, that wont happen now.

Yes because we are a third world backwards thinking nation aren't we

Yes because we are a third world backwards thinking nation aren't we?

Now you are just going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Re: Expats and ageing population= actually some people have NOT contributed much. For example families spending their lifetime on benefits, expats not paying all their taxes in the UK, people who did not work because of childcare duties.

EU migrants in low skilled jobs are not low skilled. A lot have degrees (even postgraduate degrees) and speak more than 2 languages. They are very skilled. . Net givers in the economy.

I found a funny comment in YouTube
"Peter left school at 15 and has no qualifications. Juan is a Spanish doctor working for the NHS. Peter thinks Juan is stealing his job"

Well having read on FB today that Brexit needs to happen ASAP so we can "close our borders" I was idly thinking

Those non-EU countries that Britain is now begging trade deals from. What do you think they will want, and certainly get for their nationals, in return?

Clue: Begins with V, ends in A...

{Sure, UK could try and do it’s own but it would be more expensive (trying to set up lots of different regulatory/innovation bodies).}
If the UK wants to sell anything outside the UK then it will have to conform to the requirements of the BUYER, so the UK setting it's own, although possible THEN has to prove and be certified to the buyer that it is at least the same standard or better.
Currently, UK manufacturers work to EU defined standards (CE marking is a symbol denoting this) which means that the UK can sell it's goods to 500 million people, most of whom have money (an important fact), rather than 60 million in the UK. As the EU certifications carry considerable 'weight' and through the established trade deals via the EU the UK can sell to most of the countries in the world, either tariff free or at a low negotiated rate which is the same as all EU members. Thus meaning that UK manufacturers are facing EU competitors at the same level.
All of this is important if you want dinner on your table.

Why the EU IS GREAT:

EU promotes fair competition with tremendous collaboration between multiple nation states. The influence of individual members is magnified many times on the world stage, by being part of this trading bloc.

The 'red tape' that many lament, means that the competition rules are fair. Ireland can't undermine everyone else with ridiculously low corporate taxes on special companies. Romania has to provide at least a skeleton of a social welfare state. Spain can't produce or import dodgy electrical goods. A fish I eat in Croatia should basically be safe to eat from an unpoisoned river. There's a relatively level field for agriculture, manufacturing & service industries across the member states, having so many mutual standards. This also promotes highly efficient (cost-competitive on world stage) manufacturing (just-in-time). There is a well-established (& tested!) arbitration scheme in the ECJ.

As an EU citizen working in the other EU countries, you always have a level of minimum rights even though you're not a local citizen. There are mutual state pension & health care arrangements. The rights even extend to voting in local elections. These protections promote cross-border investment, communications, consumer rights, mutual respect and positive cultural exchange. Local culture, traditions and political autonomy are promoted by many EU mechanisms, sometimes trimming power off of national govts.

Frictionless trade especially benefits small traders & local producers (which helps preserve local culture & encourages local jobs in communities that would otherwise struggle to economically). Big companies can afford the faff to deal with complicated customs etc., but small companies would struggle.

I like the Euro too. What a faff it was dealing with so many minor types of currency. Germans may grumble about it but them bailing out others will promote better governance in Greece & Italy in long run, which will make those better places for their citizens to live, therefore likely to be more stable politically.

EU membership meant I could retire to Spain for better weather (I suffer in the cold). Unemployed young Spaniards could go to UK to get work & save up to come home & buy first property, with work experience behind them to help them get jobs back in Spain.

But lljkk those are not advantages to me, I want to live on an isolated island and complain forever that the EU is being mean to me.

In reality, I thoroughly agree and endorse what you have said and suggest it should be said louder. The problems (not Brexit stuff) are common both across the EU, the EU and the world. The UK stamping it's feet and withdrawing won't help the UK. Ironically it will help the EU in that what the UK loses the EU stands to gain.
Ultimately cooperation is the way forward, the UK is signing up for stagnation and reverse at a particularly dangerous time in world affairs.

The UK stamping it's feet and withdrawing won't help the UK. Ironically it will help the EU in that what the UK loses the EU stands to gain

^This, the EU, longer term will gain enormously, the ch4 news story on the construction boom in Dublin, was a sobering watch, so much commercial building and jobs boom in FS.

Dublin is perfectly placed to become the no 1 city to relocate FS into, the infrastructure can be built relatively easily and loss of tax take to UK will be huge.

I fear as the global slow down in vehicle sales hits, JLR and Ford wont be the last, brexit means we are top of the list for plant closures.

{I fear as the global slow down in vehicle sales hits, JLR and Ford wont be the last, brexit means we are top of the list for plant closures.}
It will be like the unions of old, demanding increased wages and trying to stop closures on an industry that has moved on. There is of course oportunity for niche activities in the UK as there is plenty of 'talent' but the 'bread and butter' jobs for the masses simply won't exist.

I voted leave. Several thousand years ago in the 1970’s, left wing people like me, Peter Shore and Tony Benn were opposed to the EEC/EC/EU. The issue is not about whether we’ll be better or worse off in future, which could be affected by all sorts of things regardless of being in or out of the EU, but democracy. Can we get rid of our rulers and change them for someone else if we don’t like the laws they are enacting. Fortunately we’re still allowed a little bit of democracy which will kick in against the politicians who’ve obstructed the referendum when the next election happens.

SingleDadReally
You really do need to keep up.
The EU is as democratic, if not more so than the UK.

I’m afraid not LeClerc. The law making powers of the EU are vested in the Commission which is appointed, not elected. When’s the election where we can remove Jean Claude Junker and appoint someone else?

singledad that all sounds very honourable but what does it actually mean in practice?

Can we get rid of our rulers and change them for someone else if we don’t like the laws they are enacting. Fortunately we’re still allowed a little bit of democracy which will kick in against the politicians who’ve obstructed the referendum when the next election happens

Not true, you as an individual have almost zero democratic rights within the UK, you can only kick out the government if a majority agree with you, otherwise your vote is almost meaningless, at least with EU elections, its party list PR, so counts for something.

As a fellow left winger, we should be only to well aware of the inability for the left to have any influence on UK politics.

singledad it’s all very noble and lovely to have a debate about these things (and I studied the question of whether the EU was democratic in great depth - masters level).

But leaving was an utterly naive and stupid decision regardless of ones feelings about the EU. Having announced we were leaving “deal or no deal” we were always going to be in a disastrously weak negotiating position. On a practical level it is an utterly suicidal move as a country and it is devastating to watch us lurch idiotically towards it.

Bear behind-What it means is that all the increase in wealth in future will be, via the democratic process be able to be distributed evenly amongst the population, something it patently hasn’t been in the time we’ve been in the EEC/EC/EU.

Just popped back for a catch-up. Jas what do you mean by "don't think HateIs is much of a thinker, feelings? yes". Is that meant to be as garbled as it reads?

Could you explain what you mean please?

I voted Labour in 97, i had zero say in who Blair appointed to his cabinet, i'd love to have seen T.Benn get a cabinet position

No different to the EU commission, who quite frankly have little say in how we govern ourselves or not.

The law making powers of the EU are vested in the Commission which is appointed, not elected.

The Commission is equivalent to the UK Civil Service. We don’t elect the Civil Service either. Can you sack Sir Mark Sedwill? No, you can’t. Nor can you sack anyone in the House of Lords.

In addition, each country has its own Commissioner, so it’s not like the UK didn’t have a strong voice.

Jasjas1973. Yup, that’s democracy in a liberal society-with certain safeguards the majority gets its way. I didn’t think you were one of those millennials who thinks democracy’s like shopping where you can wear Theresa May’s skirt, Corbyn’s shirt and Vinny Cable’s jacket.

The Commission propose legislation. They don't pass it, they propose it.

The reason the Commission proposes legislation is to stop MEPs overstepping their boundaries and proposing legislation that will waste time and break laws.

The Commission proposes legislation to prevent mission creep. To control and corral the power of the EU.

Oh good, gives me the chance to post the link again to how legislation is passed in the EP.

www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/legislativeprocedure/default_en.htm