Any Leavers here?

[HoyPolloy]

Been reading all these threads on here about Brexit and just wondered if anyone voted Leave?
Fwiw, I did.
If you voted Leave what do you anticipate will happen before 29/03?

Dont be shy, I can't be the only Leaver on here!

I thought our Government would steer us through this and would plan our leaving meticulously and would achieve through strong negotiating a decent deal with the EU. I expected our Government to have cross party involvement in the process at the start and not to invoke article 50 until Parliament knew when it was best to do so and they had agreed the direction we were to go in

I voted to remain and although disappointed with the result I tried to look at the bright side and hoped for the above. People have been so badly let down by this incompetent government, poor decision making and also by an even more incompetent opposition.

As bear has asked, these are reasonable questions worthy of answers:

Are the Leavers here happy with how the government has handled the negotiations?
Are you confident about the level of planning and preparations for leaving the EU?
Do you have confidence that the government are acting with the best interests of the country and ordinary people in mind?
Do you think people will be worse off if we leave with no deal?

But bear, how could it have been different?

In some ways, from the day after the Ref, the only way was down.

To be seen to be 'honouring' the result, invoking A50 looked like a good move; and, I think most of us knew how we'd end up, and here we are.

There was no way the EU was going to allow us a better deal once out, so they pretty much 'agreed' our direction; we chucked the paddles out of the canoe 2 years ago. I don't see how any cross-party involvement would have, or could have- changed this!

...Apart from if a cross-party committee had 'Scrap this nonsense right now' as an option...

{Do you think people will be worse off if we leave with no deal?}
That's an easy one. People are already worse off, and it is going to get more extreme st time goes on, even if the UK ultimately 'Remains'.
The other answers are No, No, and No.

I can only speak for myself, "the Leavers" not being an homogeneous group. Answers to Bear's questions

1. Not really happy with any politicians of any party or nationality, but not surprised.

1. Not really, but I think this is improving.

1. Yes - I think that all of the politicians are acting in what they believe is right for the country and "ordinary" people. Irrespective of whether I agree with them or not.

1. Yes I do. How long some people are worse off depends on what we do now and in the future. No Deal most probably for longer than WA.

Good good then hate you agree it’s all a bit shit but you still want to plough on regardless.

Bear - I don't think many people thought it would be easy to Leave and I didn't think the EU would make it easy either. And as it hasn't been done before there isn't really a precedent for Leaving the EU.

It might appear to be "shit" but it's not actually all decided yet and call me stubborn if you like but just because it isn't easy doesn't mean we should just throw in the towel and say this is a bit shitty.

My decision was based on a long-term view and very aware that in the short-term it might be a bit shit.

In Japan, it is a traditional that a warrior who had acted dishonourably falls on his sword.
Just saying, but it would clear a bit of space in the HoC.

Clerc except that who would be left to sit in the HoC? Who would really want to be a politician - I wouldn't. Would you?

{ I didn't think the EU would make it easy either.}
From day one, the EU has accepted the UK's decision with sadness but respects the decision. The EU is a 'rules' based organisation, and the UK knew exactly what the rules were from the outset.
They have waited patiently, and at great expense to the cross country industries of Europe while the UK decides what it really wants to do.

Of course they have waited "patiently" - the EU isn't leaving itself. Anyway, we'll know a bit more next week won't we.

It would stop them from telling blatant lies for their own gain.
Being 'wrong' is not dishonourable. Lies, deceit, and being untrustorthy is.

I don't think many people thought it would be easy to Leave

That’s simply trying to rewrite history hate

Leave was supposed to be the easiest deal in history.

I simply can’t understand how you can say ‘it’s not decided yet’ when they’ve had 2 and a half years to ‘decide’ and with 11 weeks to go you think there’s going to be a suitable outcome

No deal is just unthinkable

And the WA is a completely pointless Brexit which gives us the worst of all worlds.

Okaay then Clerc - the entire HoC should just kill itself? Total rational response to our current situation. I think not. Maybe you should cross the water and show us all here what a government and politicians should do?

Bear - I wouldn't be so presumtious to assume I know what you think so I'm not sure why you think you know what I think. Some people might have thought it would be the way you describe but I certainly didn't.

Ok, so you were one of the few Leavers who knew how hard it would be all along.

That doesn’t change the fact that was not the narrative originally

Have you watched ‘Brexit An Uncivil War’ - if not, do so, it’s eye opening.

Can you find me any quotes from a Leavers who said ‘this will be tough but it will be worth it’

{the entire HoC should just kill itself?}
That is not what I said, but for them to act with the degree of responsibility and gravitas as if that were the case would be a damn good start. Telling lies and conjuring up any excuse to not get a job done is totally outrageous.
To refer to each other as 'honourable lkady or honourable gentleman when they clearly aren't just adds to the farce value.
Setting out a clear and financially evaluated set of outcomes from each of the 3 possible decisions that have to be voted and chosen by 29 March would be good, but with various factions yelling 'project fear' and other ridiculous slogans it is worse than a bunfight at Bettys tea rooms.

I somewhat optimistically hope that the Parliamentary Debate over the next few days produces some concrete WA amendments to the EU that covers the major concerns that the various MPs (representing their constituents) have. That we take these to the EU and their response would be better than "No - we will not allow any amendments" - computer says No.

The WA at least provides for an orderly, to be negotiated, Exit. Better than jumping off a cliff hoping that the water below is deep enough.

If you're looking for "gravitas" then you can't be too familiar with PMQs since it was televised.

I somewhat optimistically hope that the Parliamentary Debate over the next few days produces some concrete WA amendments to the EU that covers the major concerns that the various MPs

But what is the basis for your ‘hope’?

There’s absolutely no evidence that that is going happen and plenty of evidence that’s it most certainly isn’t going to happen.

Will you concede it’s a fuck up on Tuesday when TM either postpones or loses the vote because nothing has changed since the last vote was due to happen?

Then we end up with No Deal unfortunately. The basis for my "hope" is that the politicians (and MNers too btw) are appearing to 'get it together' a bit more and reducing the soundbite nonsense.

As for what happens on Tuesday I have nothing to concede, it is up to the HoC to decide what happens next, not me.

Well clearly your standards on what to ‘hope’ for are very different to mine.

Quite possibly so Bear - what do your "standards" hope for next week?

I ‘hope’ people are honest with themselves and admit what I said above is the reality ie no deal is a disaster and the WA deal is the worst of both worlds and find a way of fudging a revocation of A50.

Try again in a decade when we’ve bothered our arses to come up with a sensible plan if you like.