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Brexit

Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2019 14:14

John Bercow has just spent over at an hour dealing with a Points of Order, in which he has argued that he is defending the soverignty of the House of Commons and that is his duty, not to simply to be a cheerleader for the executive.

Taking back control seems to have rather upset ERG Brexiteers.

As Jess Phillips astutely pointed out:
"People only care about procedures, and protecting and conserving the procedures, when they don't like the outcome of the thing that is about to happen and never when it is going in their favour."

And given what we have seen the Executive do over the last few months in terms of trying to use procedure for its own political gain, this is quite a fair point.

There are however certain constitutional questions this is all raising. And we have a very real constitutional crisis here.

Bercow has ruled that he CAN allow an amendment (because the previous vote had prevented only a motion and a debate) put forward by Grieve to go to a vote.

This amendment would - if it is passed by the house - require May to report to the house within 3 days if the WA fails to pass next week.

This would be a significant victory, if it passed because at present the position is where May can delay reporting back to the house until it start to get to the point where politically the opposition can't influence things, and a 'meaningful vote' will in practice be more like a gun to the head by the Executive, rather than the House of Commons acting in a sovereign manner and being free to make its own decisions rather than be forced into a corner by Parliamentary Procedure and the politicking of Parliamentary Procedure to undermine the independence of the HoC.

Allowing more time for the opposition to hold the government to account, does not necessarily change anything. It just means the executive can not just run down the clock in the way it perhaps has been intending.

The HoC could of course, vote against the amendment.

The WA is to come to the HoC next week.

And we have no idea what the hell is going to happen next.

OP posts:
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DangermousesSidekick · 11/01/2019 12:29

There's a good starting point LeClerc. Also bring back the responsibility of councils to house people - and the wherewithal for them to do so. Separating responsibility from power was always ridiculous.
I think we urgently need a review of form and function of local government anyway. County councils perhaps are too large now for our increased population, and the focus needn't be on rural poverty any more, it's in the towns. Trouble is, there's no one I would trust to do so objectively for the good of the country.

TheABC · 11/01/2019 12:53

I never thought I would see the day when Jeremy Hunt would give me hope. And as everyone has correctly pointed out, he has given more impetus to the Remain MPs voting down the WA.

Right now, revoking Article 50 and staying in appears to be a very, very good idea.

umpteennamechanges · 11/01/2019 12:57

I enjoyed this post from the Daily Mash (satire) on FB today...very apt for our discussions so far today Grin

Everyone dying to ask left-wing Brexiter what fucking planet he’s on

ONLY politeness is stopping people asking a Jeremy Corbyn supporter how the hell a ‘left-wing Brexit’ is supposed to work.

Student Nathan Muir infuriatingly drones on about “building a fairer socialist society”, despite most people in favour of Brexit appearing to be right-wing gits.

Friend Nikki Hollis said: “Nathan actually voted Remain but now he keeps going on about ‘escaping the neo-liberal tyranny of the EU’. I blame ‘magic grandpa’ Corbyn.

“I’d really like him to explain how a left-wing Brexit will work if the economy’s stuffed. That and the small matter of everyone who’s in charge of Brexit being a Tory or a free market nutter.

“However, the only way I can think to phrase the question is ‘Have you lost your fucking mind, you absolute fucking twat?’ and I don’t feel like that will help our friendship.

“Also, if he calls it ‘Lexit’ one more time I’m going to move straight past the conversation bit and just punch him very hard in the face.”

Muir said: “Lexit will be great for Britain, and this is totally different to the time I got really into Communism and ponced around the common room talking about violent revolution.”

TatianaLarina · 11/01/2019 13:00

he has given more impetus to the Remain MPs voting down the WA.

But he’s also given the ERG impetus to vote for some kind of Brexit over no Brexit and a possible GE. The WA is still a form of hard Brexit and a route to an FTA, and they could choose to ditch NI in the backstop.

I don’t think we’re out of the woods yet.

WickedGoodDoge · 11/01/2019 13:19

Wow. I can’t believe I just quietly cheered Jeremy Hunt.

My MIL is a diehard Corbynista. She thinks it’s quite right that he plough on with his desire for Brexit because “he respects the will of the people”. She then went on a rant about Winston Churchill and debunked shit that he supposedly said about Welsh miners so she does hold rather, ermmmm, strong views.

Mrsr8 · 11/01/2019 13:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tonsilss · 11/01/2019 13:34

Can you respond that you'll consider doing so when they get a new leader?

Ta1kinPeace · 11/01/2019 13:37

Please remember that a LOT of Brexiters are rich, right wing business owners who want out of the EU to get rid of red tape.
Others are farmers not wanting to comply with the CAP
Wealth is one of the poorer predictors of Brexit allegiance in my experience

icannotremember · 11/01/2019 13:43

However, in this country, in most people’s living experience, hungry children raiding rubbish bins is a pretty dire state of affairs, don’t you think? A few years ago, the country was appalled at the story of little Daniel Pelka reduced to doing this.

Daniel Pelka ate out of bins because he was being systematically starved and tortured by the parent and step parent who eventually murdered him: it is inaccurate and offensive to use his appalling case to support the point you are making.

Tonsilss · 11/01/2019 13:48

Before the Referendum, I went round parts of a particular English city putting Remain leaflets through doors. The poorest part of the city was the most obviously pro-Leave. There were loads of Leave posters, aggressive angry people telling me how keen they were to leave the EU, etc. This was a council house area.
There were of course rich pro-Leave people too - 1 very rich git in the richest part of town told me that none of the arguments against Leave mattered, because Sovereignty trumped everything else (now that he'd made his fortune) . But I got the impression that he was very much in the minority in that part of town. The city overall voted Remain.

Tonsilss · 11/01/2019 13:56

The thing I found weird was that the day after the Referendum result nearly all the Leave posters had been taken down, all over town. It was as if Leave voters were being controlled by someone on social media, or something.

Mrsr8 · 11/01/2019 13:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WickedGoodDoge · 11/01/2019 14:00

Or you could offer your services as the new leader for the Labour Party. Grin

Mrsr8 · 11/01/2019 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lonelyplanetmum · 11/01/2019 14:09

But Mrsr8 you can even more of a difference that way? You could Even get elected then switch to being an Independent- if one can ?

Hazardswan · 11/01/2019 14:15

mrs for PM! What pissed you off about it?

bellinisurge · 11/01/2019 14:17

I watched An Uncivil War. I thought I was immune. Cried my fucking eyes out at how people were manipulated. And how genuine concerns were twisted and exploited to serve a political marketing experiment.
And how we all got shit at democracy and Jo Cox was murdered.

1tisILeClerc · 11/01/2019 14:19

{I've had an e mail this morning.
To ask my to put my name forward for local labour candidacy.
Hahahahahahahahaha.}
I was looking forward to reading your reply to that.
Are some of those practices and positions actually possible?

Mrsr8 · 11/01/2019 14:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tonsilss · 11/01/2019 14:40

I hope you respond to the email, Mrs. The more time they're sent the "not with Corbyn in charge" message, the better, surely?

BlueEyeshadow · 11/01/2019 14:40

George Freeman has blinked, and is giving way to the mob:

(££) www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/i-ve-changed-my-mind-with-a-heavy-heart-i-ll-vote-for-the-pm-s-deal-kpzfj2wpd "There is an angry mob outside parliament, and they speak for an angriness in the nation."

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/01/2019 14:44

Henry Zeffman
@hzeffman
🚨Jim Fitzpatrick, Labour MP for Poplar and Limehouse, tells MPs he is "not far away" from voting for May's deal on Tuesday. Tells them to face up to the choice between May's deal and no-deal, criticises his own party's 6 tests ("never meant to be met") and says UK must move on

twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1083735888214007809

bellinisurge · 11/01/2019 14:47

I hate to say it but WA isn't "the mob". The stupid advisory referendum delivered a vote to Leave. Foolishly, without proper national preparations, A50 was triggered. WA is the only way to deliver that. No Deal is not an option.

Mrsr8 · 11/01/2019 14:55

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TatianaLarina · 11/01/2019 15:00

George Freeman has blinked, and is giving way to the mob

A few more of these and we’re fucked.

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