Westminstenders: What The Hell Happens Next?!

[RedToothBrush]

John Bercow has just spent over at an hour dealing with a Points of Order, in which he has argued that he is defending the soverignty of the House of Commons and that is his duty, not to simply to be a cheerleader for the executive.

Taking back control seems to have rather upset ERG Brexiteers.

As Jess Phillips astutely pointed out:
"People only care about procedures, and protecting and conserving the procedures, when they don't like the outcome of the thing that is about to happen and never when it is going in their favour."

And given what we have seen the Executive do over the last few months in terms of trying to use procedure for its own political gain, this is quite a fair point.

There are however certain constitutional questions this is all raising. And we have a very real constitutional crisis here.

Bercow has ruled that he CAN allow an amendment (because the previous vote had prevented only a motion and a debate) put forward by Grieve to go to a vote.

This amendment would - if it is passed by the house - require May to report to the house within 3 days if the WA fails to pass next week.

This would be a significant victory, if it passed because at present the position is where May can delay reporting back to the house until it start to get to the point where politically the opposition can't influence things, and a 'meaningful vote' will in practice be more like a gun to the head by the Executive, rather than the House of Commons acting in a sovereign manner and being free to make its own decisions rather than be forced into a corner by Parliamentary Procedure and the politicking of Parliamentary Procedure to undermine the independence of the HoC.

Allowing more time for the opposition to hold the government to account, does not necessarily change anything. It just means the executive can not just run down the clock in the way it perhaps has been intending.

The HoC could of course, vote against the amendment.

The WA is to come to the HoC next week.

And we have no idea what the hell is going to happen next.

I don't know about shy exactly, but Japan is not a country that would have any reason to wish us any harm. I think there's a lot of commonalities between us, and a good basis for a solid accord.

Barry Gardiner’s comment a few weeks ago (‘Never interrupt your enemies when they’re making a mistake,’ re Tories/Brexit) may come to look a bit silly.
The Tories are happy to view Labour continue to make the mistake of keeping Corbyn. They know it’s what is keeping them in power.

{I don't know about shy exactly, but Japan is not a country that would have any reason to wish us any harm.}
While this is most likely true, I would bet that the legal agreements written up when they negotiated putting Nissan in Sunderland and all others will have been pulled out and dusted off.
Remember the trade deals are largely to the EU, with a bit of 'convenient jigging' to help out the UK which was hardly booming at the time. The latest big deal was to the EU and it's members, not the UK.
The word 'no' is not often used in business circles, but 'yes' has 2 meanings, depending on the context. (unofficial of course).

Never been tested in an election.

Erm, sorry, what? Did I completely hallucinate the last election? Fair enough he didn't win and arguably someone else could have done (though I'm not sure who), but he did do far better than anyone was expecting and dare I say it better than Ed Milliband in the one before.

I mean I agree he's shit in a lot of ways, but let's not ignore a whole election just to make a point.

I really need to turn off my internet or something and do work!

I don't know about shy exactly, but Japan is not a country that would have any reason to wish us any harm. I think there's a lot of commonalities between us, and a good basis for a solid accord.

Not really sure that's a great thing ... I stand to be corrected, but Japanese society isn't a paragon of egalitarianism ? More akin to Hindi culture (which also lionized the British class system).

I'm also very about political comments on how so-and-so have "shared values" with England. Because it invariably means cherry picking. For all the warm words, I can't see the Tories rushing to introduce Japanese social care policies ... they just like the bits about deferring to authority, and working for honour rather than money.

What's happened to the no deal consumer website that's going to be put up? Is it due to go up before or after Tuesdays' vote?

The tone of that could be pretty influential and either feed the narrative of project fear or 'must avoid no deal at all costs'

Or will it a very vague hash job, pretty irrelevant to most people?

I said accord, not hero worship . And in reverse: well, do you expect charity?

They're the 3rd or 4th largest economy in the world. They didn't get there by charity. I admit I'm not familiar with the specifics of their social care policies but I don't believe that their social contracts and relations work all one way as ours are beginning to. I can't agree with all of their cultural issues, but I do think they are worth listening to.

And when I talk about cultural attitudes (better word than issues) I'm specifically talking about the misogyny there, just to be clear. And whaling.

Many years ago as I was srudying the British Constitution. Something I read then resonates today. The author of the text said that he didn’t believe in referendums as they took responsibility away from government. How true that is as we see the turmoil in Westminster as they fight over delivering “the will of the people” instead of taking full responsibility and governing.

{And when I talk about cultural attitudes (better word than issues) I'm specifically talking about the misogyny there, just to be clear. And whaling.}
I terms of the UK getting itself sorted over Brexit it is not helpful to consider the Japanese intervention in any way other than the trade dealings. Japan has a lot of good and bad points and their society is very different to that in the west. Rituals and symbolism is everywhere and takes a considerable effort to understand.

High Court rules for a judicial review of Universal Credit ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46834533

i wonder if this prompted the reported scrapping of the 2-child cap ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46827301

Or (uber-cynic mode) if Amber Rudd is moving herself into challenger position ??????

Rituals and symbolism is everywhere and takes a considerable effort to understand.

(Brexiteers wander off at this point ....)

It was fun hearing the Japanese Ambassador being interviewed by John Humphrys on Today this morning, patiently schooling JH in what JIT manufacturing entailed, with JH huffing and puffing "you mean to the minute?" Ambassador: "Yes."
Also, sorry can't remember the exact words but when JH said "but Japanese companies aren't the Japanese Government, are they?" the Ambassador replied "No, but they talk to each other."

Ps Part of the turmoil is the Corbyn led opposition. They have nothing to offer but a demand for a general election which they believe will give them power. Meanwhile the public look on in dismay, bewilderment, anger and disbelief.

It was fun hearing the Japanese Ambassador being interviewed by John Humphrys on Today this morning,

Gore Vidal once told a tale of a Japanese businessman who was being pressed by a British journalist about all the wonderful reasons why Japan needed to invest in Britain. After a polite pause, the reply came (possibly via translator):

The only thing Japan needs from England is her language. And we've already taken that.

Japan is extremely well known for taking the long term view in economics.

It’s that dismissive refusal to listen that is hardening attitudes and increasing anger and resentment.

It's the shitshow of the past decade or so that's done that, or post Thatcher if one wants to look longer term. This is one of the outcomes of the ideologically driven austerity project. It isn't left leaning Remainers who are responsible for that.

And frankly there's only a limited amount that listening, whatever that really means in this context, can do. Because when you've listened to people be dangerously wrong, they're still dangerously wrong when they've finished talking.

I live in a poor area of the north, incidentally, and the people I'm talking about are those I live amongst. I am bored shitless with listening to them, in fact. They've empowered the sort of right wing shitwipes who under ordinary circumstances would probably want them put down. And they've done it to ourselves. They do not need and will not benefit from Labour's continued pretence that Brexit is some minor issue we can deprioritise while we sort out child poverty and the NHS. They do however need and would benefit from knowing that the poor in Britain are still worse off than those in virtually any other society in the world, and that us being British isn't some kind of protective talisman against things getting even worse.

@Shitmewithyourrhythmstick "the poor in Britain are still worse off than those in virtually any other society in the world"

hyperbole much? how on earth do you reach that conclusion? what evidence are you basing that on please.

Sorry that was meant to say better off!

{They do however need and would benefit from knowing that the poor in Britain are still worse off than those in virtually any other society in the world, and that us being British isn't some kind of protective talisman against things getting even worse}
Sorry I am not quite understanding this sentence, it might be my headache though.
Yes there are poor in the UK, shameful as it is, but social services and the existence of the NHS mean that they are still a lot better off than something like half the worlds population, depending on your exact definition.

better off! Ah now it makes sense!

Aha, thank you for the clarification! That was what made my jaw drop about that line since it really didn't fit with the rest of your post. Makes much more sense now :-)

Yeah, basically there's a lot further down to go. Not very many people in the UK starve, for example. There are a great many countries where that can't be said, and some of them have been very rich and powerful at various points.

I'm wary of making this point too hard purely because it gives the lie to the idea that all Brexit voters are poor and marginalised, but for those who were, this is information they need.

A ruling that it is an MP's duty to ensure that everyone in their constituency has at least 1 meal a day would be great to my mind.
The knowledge gained from the exercise of doing it would be immense.
Maybe the MP would have either 1 or 2 days per month allocated to this work that they HAVE to do personally.