What the actual fuck is wrong with Corbyn?

[HarrisIsGoingOut]

He is less useful than a chocolate teapot anyway, but for a man who blusters on so much about "listening to the members" and "making policy based on the members" he's certainly got an odd way of showing it.

I just find it extraordinary that such a shambolic, self-interested and, frankly corrupt, government has been enabled to get away with it because the opposition is so extraordinarily ineffectual.

I despair of Corbyn and the Labour party and I am a life long Labour voter
I wouldn't vote rather than vote Tory and I couldn't vote Lib den with the loons of the LBlGBTQI showing how stupid their party is via twitter
Corbyn is so crap as a leader. Momentum are terrifying. And group that think something good can come out of unrest are worrying. I have friends who are socialist workers and they want unrest and revolution. Do they not look at history
Our country is in a mess and I can't see who can get us out of it

OK.

On a calmer note ...

Bibbity, you're right.

To be scrupulously fair ...

The motion hammered out at the last Labour Party conference laid down a position with regard to Brexit that was, in fact, a kind of process.

Labour would respect the voters who voted Leave, and exhaust all outcomes to deliver a responsible outcome, including a People's Vote - but that came some way down the 'road map' of what Labour would try to achieve.

What is a bit worrying, is that a. They are leaving it a bit late b. Corbyn seems to go 'off-message' a fair bit and come out with quite 'Leave' stuff - which is then spun by his supporters and c. The Corbyn twitterati are spinning a 'Lexit' position.

C. Matters because, as I said, that seems to be how the 'inner circle' communicate these days, rather than through identifiable spokespeople communicating with mainstream media. So this has some weight as to how thinking in the inner circle is going.

It's quite worrying for people like myself who were pleased (-ish) with the Conference motion.

I also think it is, ultimately, a terrible error for electoral purposes.

That said, despite the polls, political pundit opinion does seem to favour a Labour GE win. Presumably, unless s miracle happens, leaving Labour to deal with negotiating an actual Brexit deal at the end of the withdrawal period.

Personally, I think that's a disaster. 🤷‍♀️

If the exit is sealed in March (I know it may well not be, but go with it for now please), is there anything Corbyn might do that the Tories wouldn’t that would be politically attractive to the EU?

Customs union? Freedom of movement? Joint military? CJEU supervision? Etc.

I’m very unclear what his post-Brexit policy is for relationships with the EU.

Well, the negotiating position worsens with the WA (the UK will have no say in the EU; the economy will be weaker; we'll be a market, losing a lot of our flagship businesses to EU countries). So whoever deals with that ... well, it won't be good.

The two 'bargaining chips' are: good Will (!) and political stability across Europe/making a common front against movements such as right-wing populism.

In theory, Labour are far better placed to pursue this (May hasn't seemed to pursue the anti-right wing populism thing so far and Labour weren't the Party that formed s group within the EU with right-wing populist politicians).

Also, Labour are less likely to set up a low-regulation, low-tax Hell-hole just off the coast of Europe, so it would be in the EU's interest, you might argue, to support a Labour government's Brexit project, if only to diminish the possibility of a Conservative government succeeding them and pushing that through.

Frankly, that all looks a bit weak to me.

Just want to point out that all political parties manipulate social media, sock puppets and all.

To add:

Basically, a Brexit negotiation would be a renegotiationof the WA, and would (presumably) be an attempt to negotiate a deal with better conditions.

Why should the EU concede more?

The WA is pretty crap because of May's daft 'Red lines' BUT that might be where negotiations would necessarily have to start, whatever happens to those 'Red lines' if Labour are in charge.

So the question would be, what has Labour to offer in return for a more favourable deal?

And, in theory, Labour might rescind all 'Red lines' and still not have s good position.

Or it might stick with all the FOM stuff, which is such a big sticking point.

Who knows, really? 🤷‍♀️

Working out a deal, from the existing position of the WA, is going to be very difficult.

Thank you.

That all seems right. I’m just struggling to see what Corbyn’s EU-policy offer to the electorate would be in a 2019 election (assuming May falls: DUP flounce + confidence vote and so on).

If Labour can’t get in before exit happens I strongly suspect he’ll lose a big chunk of Labour’s non-core Northern and inner London vote simply because he’ll be flogging a purely domestic manifesto that many outside the Labour heartlands will be suspicious of.

A lot of it will be scaremongering by the Tories of course, but I would expect that to work. He’s hardly done himself any favours over the last couple of years with his confused messages on domestic matters and his idiosyncratic approach to foreign policy.

Corbyn’s position on Brexit would offer nothing. Because all of his dreams of re-nationalising things and creating social equality require money and a healthy economy.

Which even the most fervent Brexit supporter will admit is not going to happen in the immediate aftermath of Brexit. Even Reece-Mogg talks about seeing the benefits in fifty years. FIFTY YEARS.

I’ll be dead. So a bit late for me.

Too many labour voters voted for brexit.
That’s why he’s not doing anything - plus he respects the referendum result - which is only right.
He’s not stupid.

@surferjet , on your own there supporting this twat.

Actually most Labour voters, voted remain.

But somehow there aren't enough of them?

It's just laughable as an argument. You could make a sane argument about the location of Labour leave voters, but arguing based on the absolute number is just stupid.

Proportionately (in 2016), Labour voters supported leave in approx the same ratio as con voters supported remain!
Now Labour voters are about 80% in favour of remaining,

Corbyn might be respecting the vote but he'll be on the wrong side of history with that one.

As for getting a better deal? he'll need to win a GE before we leave and is living in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks the tories/DUP will vote twice against May, with the polls so close.

Aside, something not really picked up on - is that in a no confidence vote which May loses, requires MPs to have a 2nd vote... just make sure they really want to go ahead with such a momentous decision as a GE !!!! but we all have to "respect the vote"

Hes dreadful

Hands up anyone who thinks Corbyn has a well thought-out plan for Brexit negotiations?

What’s his timeline?

I heard him complaining in the middle of his Christmas holidays that Parliament should be recalled to get on with the vote and shouldn’t really have gone on holiday with it hanging over the country, but really shouldn’t he have said that before they broke up?

{Hands up anyone who thinks Corbyn has a well thought-out plan for Brexit negotiations?}
If he had a plan it should have been presented 2 1/2 years ago and it must satisfy the basic criteria of the EU and as close as possible to the electorate.
So that will be a fail then.

Any arse can stand on the sidelines and jeer at Mrs May but he is supposed to be the leader of the opposition with the ultimate responsibility for taking the UK to war if necessary.

Brexit isn’t labour v Tory - do you actually know what a referendum is?

People from all sides voted to leave.
Do you understand that?

We know that Brexit isn't Labour vs Tory. Also know that Corbyn is useless. Possible to hold both opinions.

Corbyn has to represent his party and voters plus attract new ones if he wants to move from opposition to Government.

He won't do that on a Leave platform, the evidence for this is that if Leave was as popular as SJ suggests, May would have landslided the 2017 GE and be way ahead in the polls now, she is delivering Brexit after all - if the country wanted a no-deal brexit, ukip wouldn't be on 3%.

Remain has a 12pt lead over Leave, JC needs to catch the change in mood and if he doesn't, he'll spend another 5 years shouting from the sidelines - which perhaps is what he secretly wants?

Oh, surferjet. Still with the weird interjections (a kind of political Tourette's), the insults, the declarative non-sequiturs, the fast and loose 'facts'.

It hasn't quite reached the point of having a vintage charm. It's just old.

Anyway, Jeremy Corbyn. A stubborn sheep, wrapped in a logical mystery, wrapped in an enigma a baying, feral Twitter out-riders.

But, for all that, a terrible impediment to an outbreak of political sanity.

Maybe Corbyn is taking notes from Dominic Cummings’ playbook?

Cummings, as director of the Leave campaign, made the deliberate move not to have any plan for Brexit. No clear vision of what Leave meant. This meant that Leavers could hang their own visions on it - remain in the Single Market, no deal, some glorious future with Britain triumphant.

Not telling the people what your plans are means you don’t lose voters who disagree with your plans.

Unfortunately it also can look like you don’t have a clue what you’re doing.

Corbyn is a hopeless incompetent. I hold him almost equally to blame with Teresa May for the disaster that Brexit has become.

I have never voted Tory in my life but if TM stands down and is replaced by someone moderate like Justine Greening or Dominic Grieve, I would actually consider voting for them over Corbyn.

Corbyn isn't responsible for the mess that is brexit, May doesn't listen to her cabinet let alone corbyn or anyone else in Parliament.

JC is just a poor leader, if he were shadow education or shadow health secretary, he'd do fine.

As for Greening or Grieve? they would just carry-on tory policies that favour the wealthy, as they did when they were in Government.

I think history will judge Corbyn very badly.

I regret voting for him in 2017 mainly because I hate to see my vote counted as a vote for Brexit. The Labour Party is counting on it’s remainers sticking with it. I won’t vote Labour again until it opposes Brexit and have written to my MP to tell her that. (Lifelong Labour voter and former member)