WA or No Deal?

[bellinisurge]

Asked this on a few Brexit threads and didn't get an answer so asking it separately.
Bored of listening to bad winners whining about Juncker and evil EU and all that tedious bollocks. It's come down to this binary question and which is it.
As someone who voted Remain, I prefer shit deal over no Deal.
No Deal would be a humanitarian catastrophe.
Which is it for you?

{ I feel no need to supply answers as to how the government will sort things, but nor am I willing to accept that they can't be solved.}
If you have faith in Grayling who has buggered much of rail transport and is spending millions on ships that don't exist then you really need to bang your head on a wall then start looking at what is actually happening. You have fallen into the trap of thinking that the government will look after you. While ultimately they are supposed to do that, they will only do it long after their own nests are feathered.

mummy2017, I don't think you're stupid, so there must be another reason why you cannot supply cogent arguments as to how our fuckwit govt will sort things out. However, I truly believe that leaving the EU is heartsinkingly sad. I loved the idea of plodding around Europe with my dugs. Or even just the idea of it.

Mummy, on what basis do you think the food supply chain will get fixed in a short amount of time?

I didn't say it was weeks of no bread because of snow.

It only took a few days of snow to cause disruption in the food supply. That is my point.

If you think the government will look after it's citizen then why are there patients in the corridors?

So you have blind faith in the government. Based on the shitty time you have had, you really think the government is going to make everything better.
If we crash out, please come back and tell us how great everything is going for you.

Mummy there are more than 300,000 homeless people in Britain and this number is increasing. Homelessness is a national scandal. It kills people. The government is not addressing it at all. And yet you have faith in them to quickly and efficiently resolve food chain issues in the event of a no-deal Brexit. And your faith has not wavered despite observing the shitshow of Brexit so far. Baffling.

So you have blind faith in the government. Based on the shitty time you have had, you really think the government is going to make everything better.

People arguing with mummmy2017 are missing the fundamental point that she wants to make her situation more bearable by making everyone else's circumstances a lot worse. It's a psychological and not a practical point of view, kind of keeping up with the Joneses in reverse.

@Mistigri - I hate attempting to diagnose when I am ill equipped to but this was a pal saying it to me in real life, I'd be thinking she/he is suffering from undiagnosed depression and needs medical help.

Sorry went off to bed.
I thought this way before anything happened...
Do you personally import every item you use, or eat?
No right now you trust that it will be sorted for you, that firms that want to make a profit out of you will do it for you......
So your all already doing it... Strange that...

I have mild depression, but are you saying the millions who feel like me are depressed as well....

@mummmy2017 I grow a lot of my own stuff. I'm a prepper so I have stores.
No Deal will make importing difficult so stuff won't get to the shops as quickly. That's what the fuss is about.
I'm sorry you have depression. Don't take it out on everyone else.

No right now you trust that it will be sorted for you, that firms that want to make a profit out of you will do it for you......

Yes this is very true, a profit out of you with a falling £, real or imagined shortages = recipe for rising prices, its happening now, importers will charge whatever they think the market will stand.

As for what you eat or need, well look around your house, white goods, food and/or their ingredients, little is 100% made in the uk, we just don't have the raw materials.

I'm the opposite to you, i've a good life and want others to have that too, makes for less crime, better social cohesion, when i had little, i didn't wish that on others, that's just mean.

This is not about depression.

Even if I had a 50k a year job, I would still leave.... I really do feel the EU is no longer fit for purpose...

Me when being sane: Withdrawal Deal. No Question. No matter how bad it is. It has transition and goes a long way to protecting rights.

Me when being angry, nihilistic, petulant and most definitely not serious: No Deal, so I can go 'I told you so' with a smug irritating fashion from abroad.

The only change i want is an end to universal suffrage, its very clear not everyone should be able to vote.

Quite right. All those ignorant working-class people who voted Leave shouldn't be permitted to vote at all. Leave it to their social betters.

(1867 called, they want you back in time for the Reform Act debates...)

Having been fortunate enough to travel pretty widely around the world, I have witnessed that there a heck of a lot of poor people. Ridiculous amounts of wealth with penniless peasants living in rags outside the gated compounds, begging for money, often with obvious deformities that could have been treated if there was any health service.
China, many countries in the far East, Africa and Russia.
For many, seeing a doctor at all would be a 'luxury'. Many have no form of 'social services' so no work means no food unless you can persuade friends or family to help you. No pensions either so you basically have to do some work until you drop.
Citizens in the UK (and Europe of course but they aren't Brexiting) have a long way to fall even if they don't realise it.

The only change i want is an end to universal suffrage, its very clear not everyone should be able to vote.

This is short hand for saying: "I think some people are lesser than others and not deserving of equal rights. I have no problem with the exploitation of certain groups. Slavery isn't such a bad idea you know."

I hope you realise this is what you are actually saying and are honest that this is what you think and are prepared to defend this view rigourously.

It is almost as bad as suggesting that women are prone to 'giddiness' from time to time and as such shouldn't vote.

Ending universal suffrage is an idea that would get an old home loving crock like me out on the streets fighting with every last breath I had. As much as I hate Leave, the very last thing I want is an end to universal suffrage. I support people's absolute right to vote for something stupid just as I support my right to complain about their voting choice.
Please tell me that ending universal suffrage is a sick joke.

Ending universal suffrage is an idea that would get an old home loving crock like me out on the streets

And yet most people in the UK are perfectly fine with the idea that a million Britons living in the EU could be left without any vote in any elections at all. (After March I will not be entitled to vote anywhere).

Please tell me that ending universal suffrage is a sick joke

It was said tongue in cheek, out of frustration at some of the remarks mummy came out with, particularly the callousness showed toward victims of any deaths in NI caused by brexit.... my friend and cousin would love not to have been murdered by the IRA but hell Mummy wants brexit, has voted for it and doesnt give a fcuk about the consequences but thats all ok, well no its not at all.

However, i have often thought that min standards of education should be met first, that 16yo's should be able to vote and that the elderly particularly those with suspected dementia shouldn't be, after all a Will would be deemed invalid in this case.
That EU citizens here and UK citizens living abroad were refused a vote is a far bigger democratic issue than my random thoughts.

That EU citizens here and UK citizens living abroad were refused a vote is a far bigger democratic issue than my random thoughts.

Whilst I am absolutely opposed to ending universal suffrage, I also absolutely agree with this.

And I have zero sympathy for anyone who believes that just because they are miserable, so should other people be. Lots of people have had tough times, mummy. I have - multiple bereavements, marriage breakdown due to my husband's alcoholism and its effect on my DDs, financial hardship. Been there. But the difference between you and me is that I do not wish those things on other people. You want Brexit to make other people as miserable as you are. That says a lot about the kind of person you are.

I voted leave and I knew exactly what I was voting for.
I am more than happy to leave without a deal. We will not have to pay the EU any more money and can trade on WTO rules.
This is about a lot more than economics for me. It is about leaving the shackles of the EU.

And I think Nigel Farage is great. It's just a pity he is no longer politically active because if he was we would have left the wretched EU by now.

{We will not have to pay the EU any more money and can trade on WTO rules. }
The UK already 'owes' around £19 Billion, when it leaves on 29 March.
Another £20 Billion if there is a 2 year transition period.
WTO rules will mean an instant hike in prices for food averaging 10%, 40% for most meats.
Being a 'Farage' supporter is fine, if you like that sort of thing but you need to consider he has in the last few years been 'definitely in' and 'definitely out' and his main interest is getting a good return on his' bets' which will make him a few hundred million. Not sure if he actually cares about you though.

We will not have to pay the EU any more money and can trade on WTO rules.

Trading on WTO presumably means paying EU tariffs that we wouldn’t have otherwise paid. I wonder how the cost of that stacks up against the cost of EU membership minus the gains of said membership.

I think Nigel Farage is great. It's just a pity he is no longer politically active because if he was we would have left the wretched EU by now

He has never been in a position to have speeded our departure from the EU as he lost 7 x trying to become an MP.

His earnings are 800k a year plus his 100k salary as an MEP (£800k per year) ... he really really doesn't give a stuff about you or i,

I wonder how the cost of that stacks up against the cost of EU membership minus the gains of said membership.

The watchdog for global trade [WTO] has said leaving the European Union would push back trade barriers at a cost of £9bn a year to British consumers.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/25/wto-eu-uk-consumers-trade-deals