WA or No Deal?

[bellinisurge]

Asked this on a few Brexit threads and didn't get an answer so asking it separately.
Bored of listening to bad winners whining about Juncker and evil EU and all that tedious bollocks. It's come down to this binary question and which is it.
As someone who voted Remain, I prefer shit deal over no Deal.
No Deal would be a humanitarian catastrophe.
Which is it for you?

But @Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld , while WA might not be what I prefer. No Deal would be a complete catastrophe. Why would you even contemplate it?

Sorry if I seem dim, but we are leaving because people voted Leave. To say that No Deal is therefore equally the fault of Remainers is just mind-boggling. You're a Leaver - you voted for this. Remainers did not. It really is that simple. Take responsibility for the choices you made.

Remain voters wanted the best possible deal - the one we already have

Leave voters rejected that deal but cannot agree on what to replace it with leaving us with nothing

I would not rejoice in it, of course not, but it is a classic case of fail to prepare, prepare to fail. No-one deigned to consider or engage with issues that might, regardless of logic, driven a Leave win. I'm not talking about immigration (people who voted on the basis of that are twats of the highest order), but rather disenfranchaisement due to the London and the South focus of Westminster and the media in terms of jobs, education, spending and investment ect. (that was what drove me to vote as I did). Then, everyone was so aghast and unprepared re the result, that article 50 was triggered far too early and with no road map.

No Deal will be hard and not the ideal choice the WA is better, but no side should be made to take ALL of the responsibility in a no deal outcome, as Both sides contributed to it coming about.

I do, Pointythings, but so should remainers. If they had bothered to engage with, rather than patronise people like me (so called thick northern racists.) I would have voted differently.

Ta1k, you can't know it's the definitive best, we've not tried anything else in 40 years.

Nope @Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld . Still not getting it. While my future grandchildren may write an interesting essay on the causes of Brexit and get bonus points for constructing tortuous arguments about bit part blame, the fault of all the shit that No Deal brings will be squarely on the people who voted Leave and the sods that egged them on for personal profit.

Both sides contributed to it coming about.
WRONG
The ERG demanded that A50 was invoked without a plan being in place.
Which was incredibly stupid.

viewfrommyworld nope, your argument is basically just 'I did it because no-one told me not to'. Leavers are 100% responsible for the mess we are in because they are 100% of the people who voted for it.

@Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld , I'm also from the North and I live in a strong Leave voting area. Everyone around me can read as well as I can. They just made a potentially catastrophic choice. I wasn't patronised by anyone. I just looked at which option was the least damaging. And I chose to vote Remain.

I agree with you that it was stupid, Ta1k, but I am not a member of the ERG so hd no more say than you did after the vote.

Pointy, it's attitudes and comments like that, that are the problem, that's not what I said at all. I explained myself in the post before last, but you clearly don't give a shit about that stuff but that's ok. Maybe you've never had to.

Yet people wonder why leavers will never explain their choice...

I'm glad you didn't feel patronised Bellini, but I certainly did. No one thought that people might disagree with them because, what do they know or what's there to be unhappy about? Well, from where I'm sitting a hell of a lot, but no one ever asks that question.

@Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld , if you feel this way, write to your MP. Do it today or tomorrow. They have to listen to you even if they do something you don't like. Chunnering about how nobody cares is not going to get you anywhere.
And, head over to the Prepper topic for some sensible budget friendly advice about building a bit of resilience into your food supply.
I'm on there a lot and on there no one cares how you voted.

but rather disenfranchaisement due to the London and the South focus of Westminster and the media in terms of jobs, education, spending and investment ect.

How does leaving the EU make any of that any better? They are seriously valid concerns. I just can’t see how leaving the EU makes it any better. In fact I fear it will make it worse.

Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld
There are only 3 possible cards on the table for 29 March. Revoke, which is pretty unlikely and 2 versions of leave, just to make you happy.
Version 1 is May's 'deal'. It is only part of a deal as many things need negotiating but ultimately it is leaving. The beauty is that no one need panic or die during this process. With skillful negotiation the UK can leave as fast as it wants or slower if that is what is deemed best.
The other option is to leave suddenly on 29 March. People will probably die due to accidental mistakes, emergency supplies in the wrong place and so on.
Be happy in your vision of leaving and rejoice.

viewfrommyworld you had all the information and you called it Project Fear. You made a choice to believe the Leave campaign. What 'engagement' is it that you think would have made a difference? Did you want the Remain campaign to say 'there there, I know your life is really tough, but if we Leave it will be even worse'? How patronising would that have been? The Remain campaign handled itself badly, but if you want to mention calling people names, the Leave campaign won that one with Nigel Farage's Breaking Point poster.

Ha! If you knew how many letters I've written (would you like some wallpaper?) how many community projects I have helped with. No one gives a damn. The Labour lot, just wait wistfully and pointlessly for the end of globalsation, and the Tories would never get in around here and even if they do they'd just shaft us in different ways. Believe me I have spent years doing far, far more than chunnering on, and still got nowhere. Thanks for the prepper tip, but I can't afford to.

The process of leaving, by the way will have no benefit to poor Northern or South Western towns in need of help, or indeed anywhere, as the government has spent all the money on the leave process.

{Ha! If you knew how many letters I've written (would you like some wallpaper?) how many community projects I have helped with. No one gives a damn}
Sadly you appear to have not been writing to the right people, but you may have attributed your woes to the EU. You have backed the wrong horse.

No I did not, I've never called it that Pointy. There you go patronising me again, when you have got fuck all idea about how tough my life is and has been since the moment I was born! I hate Farage, he had no impact on my choice, my hope was that someone would ask why? Then there could have been a meaningful dialogue, before article 50 was triggered and I would have been more open to that and I would be in full support of Remain. Alas, all people did was judge, like you have.

my hope was that someone would ask why? Then there could have been a meaningful dialogue, before article 50 was triggered

This is actually the first leaver response that I’ve actually understood. I’m sorry you’re getting it in the neck here. I think there were a lot of “protest voters” like you and I too wish your concerns had been listened to properly.

I said on my thread that got deleted, because of ppl jumping on me and you were on it, so you read it. That I know full well that the EU was not the cause of my problems, but that the UK government misused the EU to ignore people like me or say 'it's all there for you if you just apply', so I felt that getting out of the EU and making those who benefitted a huge amount from it sit on the wood a bit, they would be angry about the divides in the UK and we could all work together, for a better, more equal society.

@Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld , you should ask for advice on the Preppers topic for people on a really tight budget. You would be welcome and I bet other people who've felt they can't even consider it might be inspired.
I don't like Jack Monroe but she has put some good info together online. I don't have a link but there be one on some of the threads.

Thanks Malice.

I was on your thread that got deleted @Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld?

Thanks to you too, Bellini.