WA or No Deal?

[bellinisurge]

Asked this on a few Brexit threads and didn't get an answer so asking it separately.
Bored of listening to bad winners whining about Juncker and evil EU and all that tedious bollocks. It's come down to this binary question and which is it.
As someone who voted Remain, I prefer shit deal over no Deal.
No Deal would be a humanitarian catastrophe.
Which is it for you?

No Deal is my choice.

It's so horrible that:

• we would jump back into the EU ASAP

• politicians who pushed for it who be drawn and quartered

• we'd be rid of much of the extreme right wing pretty fast

SacrebleuLondres
While an interesting proposal I think there are too many holes in it as a workable strategy. We obviously don't know what will happen when the NDAs are lifted for example, so the discovery that a significant chunk of UK 'industry' has departed permanently will cause untold unrest.
The 'bar' for rejoining may well be raised significantly as the EU needs a sensible 'partner' to be involved and a country that may be sliding towards civil war is not that!
There is no mechanism to 'force' the outcomes you would like to see.
Radical anything always brings significant problems as you have to persuade a pretty high percentage, possibly 75% or more to be at least content with the proposal.

The choice provided was No Deal vs a WA - ie a transition until we can negotiate a deal.

The latter is death by a thousand cuts. Years and years of negotiations and still the prospect of a Crash Out at some point.

The country has not realised the danger and disadvantages of leaving.

My view is best to shock it to wake up and revolt quickly rather than slowly see the country drift into irrelevance. Take the pain upfront.

It's my view. I can't know for sure how people would react but my guess is anger would be a good bet. And angry people can effect change.

Personally I hope and believe we will Remain. Brexit is a myth. It doesn't exist. So it can't actually happen.

Option 3, we revoke Article 50 until such time as the country has properly prepared to leave (adequate shipping facilities, technology to manage a customs border, managing flow of people across borders that doesn’t breach to Good Friday Agreement) or the country changes its mind to remain.

I’m starting an epetition to place this option before Parliament, I’ll post a link once it is live.

{The latter is death by a thousand cuts. Years and years of negotiations and still the prospect of a Crash Out at some point.

The country has not realised the danger and disadvantages of leaving. }
Although the WA is not overly attractive it does keep the UK 'alive' and the shock, without too massive a financial investment may bring the UK to it's senses.
Since most on MN are 'UK based' there is still a noticeable view from the 'inside' expressed by most posters, whereas I would argue that you need to view the whole issue 'standing on the moon' (take a fully global view).
The question many in Europe, and those outside ask is 'What the hell is the UK thinking'? This needs answering in a logical way taking into account what the UK will actually have once it leaves the EU. What is it about the UK that is 'special' such that other countries with want to trade with it? You can think of this as an extension of your choice of supermarket. Factors like proximity, friendly staff, and value for money all contribute to your choice.
The UK will drift into irrelevance unless it actually remains in the EU. It was at the top table of a bloc representing a quarter of the worlds wealth. To think it can 'go it alone' is frankly ridiculous so realistically it HAS to team up with the USA, Russia or China. The UK will not have any significant 'clout' in any of these.

@CraicMammy

Way too sensible and rational an approach to get any support.

Unfortunately the representatives we have elected would never support something as reasonable. Because Brexit has nothing to do with reason.

{Option 3, we revoke Article 50 until such time as the country has properly prepared to leave }
Such an undertaking would be in the order of at least 10 years, probably a lot more. Such a procedure really would damage the EU which although some might say 'great, they have been mean to us' is an exceptionally childish view.
You also have to consider that the UK is now more divided than ever over the issue. NO attempt has been made to address the real issues in the UK and a massive chunk of industry, the wealth creating part of the UK economy, will have departed.

Because Brexit has nothing to do with reason

Which is precisely why it’s time the sensible, rational majority spoke up

Btw revocation isn’t necessarily death by a 1000 cuts. It could mean departing once the technology is in place to correctly manage borders, or give time to reconsider the merits of retaining membership in an informed way.

MN is so out of touch with the general public.
There was a poll that said Tory voters want out, as WA is so tainted it is a poison challis.
Labour will vote down TM....
DUP will vote it down.
Half the Torys will vote it down it is so bad.
Nothing has changed since the last vote was pulled..
Face up to reality. 2 years and no agreement,,, the EU need it finished as well, not more time for nothing to happen...
God forbid the withdraw the A50....
As I know whole counties where people will come out onto the streets to protest... Don't kid yourself just because your little bubble says it won't happen.

@mummmy2017 - are you ready for No Deal?

@mummmy2017 - are you ready for supply problems in shops?

{Face up to reality. 2 years and no agreement}
Could be that the UK government are stupid enough to waste 2 years trying to decide what a 'Brexit' looks like and then 'demand' a series of things it knew in advance it can't have.
I presume you realise that the WA is NOT a deal, it is a comprehensive list of things that need negotiating, 585 pages of them. Once negotiations have started (they won't until the WA is signed off) THEN the negotiations can begin properly.

The negotiations will take a lot of work. The trade deal between the EU and Japan signed fairly recently was 20,000 pages long and IIRC took 10 years to write. The UK will have to embark on a few hundred of these.

As I know whole counties where people will come out onto the streets to protest...

My area voted Leave. I can’t see much rioting being likely though - not enough public toilets and too many kerbs for the mobility scooters to cope with.

As I know whole counties where people will come out onto the streets to protest...Don't kid yourself just because your little bubble says it won't happen

No they won't and you've no idea what whole counties would or wouldn't do.
i'm surrounded by Leavers in my bit of Cornwall and no-one gives a shit any more, they are sick to death with Brexit and would happily wish it away, anyone mentioning brexit now is told to STFU.

Farage on his recent save brexit tour could hardly manage a village hall of OAPs - these people aren't about to launch revolution onto the streets of the UK - rioters tend to be young and have nothing to lose.

People are seeing the realities of an economic slow down : house prices falling, low consumer confidence, rising inflation..... plus all the no deal prep by the Government.

Riots will only happen if there is severe disruption of food supply ( this is an event of No deal)

As I know whole counties where people will come out onto the streets to protest

Which counties are these?

How many people do you know in each county who will come out on to the streets to protest?

If article 50 were to be taken back, and MEMBERSHIP of the EU.... Resumed...
Yes I would out protesting, and so would several million others, it would be the biggest own goal by any Parliament ever...
Yet you suggestion to make the thing happen as if we are just taking back an item we no longer want....
Wow... Just wow....

{How many people do you know in each county who will come out on to the streets to protest?}
I doubt many will really protest now but there will be 'scraps' in the supermarkets when shelves empty.
If they could manage a 'punch up' over a 'build a bear' event I think food shortages will get some attention.
'All those that voted leave can go to the back of the queue'.

So @mummmy2017 , I asked whether you were ready for food supply problems at the supermarket. Are you?

Remainer... I'd support neither. Revoke article 50 for the meantime, because there is no majority for either approach. Let the leavers work out how to bake their cake before they attempt to eat it and shove it down our throats next time. Meanwhile, we can let our esteemed politicians get on with the day job.

Even in the war there was food.
There will be no u boats stopping food arriving, are you really so blind that you believe the spin that we will starve.

And mummy2017, you don't seem to understand what representative democracy, which we have here in this fractured country, is. Also, we are still EU members...

bellini I sympathise with your stance. Better awful, than bloody catastrophic.. But no. I cannot, although I also cannot see who in parliament will protect the country....