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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Grand Old Duke of Brexit, he had 10,000 men ..

968 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2018 09:44

May has marched us up, down and round and round. And still we are standing exactly where we began with no clue and no direction of where to go.

She may have survived a leadership challenge but it has resolved precisely nothing. And whilst many here are relieved because they feared an ERG proxy PM and the consequences and chaos of yet more lost time, May herself is a road block to any sort of resolution. Her inflexible approach and seeming lack of ideas are not helping matters.

May's rhetoric is that she will pursue a no deal v her deal strategy in extreme brinkmanship. Her efforts to reopen a negotiation that the UK had already agreed to have fallen flat with rising irritation for the EU. Indeed the EU seem to be toughing language (though it must be noted their position has remained exactly the same since the beginning)

The backstop is their red line, because its in essence the GFA.

May's promises to the DUP and to her own party were always unachievable; she should never have made them. She only did so to save her own neck, but in doing so, she makes it harder to force her deal though.

The all important vote it seems has been postponed until after Christmas. The deadline is 21st Jan. If there is no resolution the government have to make a statement in 5 days. Its still impossible to see it passing.

The Grieve III motion which was supposed to neutralise the threat of no deal has been rendered all but useless by the delay. Whether MPs realise this is another matter though. It could lead to a false sense of safety and not taking the prospect of no deal seriously.

Both May's actions and strategy and the false hope of Grieve III / revocation also weaken the prospect of alternative solutions to the WA, such as a Norway Plus or a People's Vote.

No deal preparations in the meantime have been stepped up.

May has promised that she will not revoke A50. The ERG clearly don't necessarily believe that or they wouldn't have launched their leadership challenge.

Would she though? Was it strategy or a slip when she said it was a choice between no deal, her deal or no brexit? And is this statement helpful or an additional problem in itself given subsequent developments?

I find it hard to forget her pig headed stubbornness and how she has persued court cases for no other reason other than to make a point, or for what looks like pure spite. I think she would no deal and take the fall out over revocation out of duty to her party and what she sees as her duty to the country to 'respect the vote'. The consequences be damned.

However the ever sceptical James Patrick does think she would revoke at the last minute because of her duty to the country and what no deal would do to the country. And she has proved she is for turning under extreme pressure.

The hard core of the ERG are also not done. They are avowed to do anything to stop a deal. Labour’s strategy seems to be tied to how serious the ERG and the DUP are with this. They are holding out for the prospect of a non-binding no confidence vote. Which is meaningless. Unless they have the numbers to challenge the Fixed Term Act then their current strategy is utterly pointless and just for the viewing consumption of those who don't understand how pointless this is. It's hard to see Labour’s real strategy as supporting anything but no deal in practice. Although the one ray of hope is that they did support Grieve III. They do need to wake up to the reality of the threat though.

Ultimately I fear it will come down to how MPs make this judgement call. Do they share my fears or do they share James Patrick's position.

And that is nothing but a gamble.

I fear Brexit will ultimately be decided on a gamble of What Would May Do. There isn't any other realistic prospect presenting itself at this stage.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 14/12/2018 14:38

(I must stop Richarding him ! 😳)

1tisILeClerc · 14/12/2018 14:39

Turnips
{There is also a lack of thinking}
You didn't need to go any further!!

DarlingNikita · 14/12/2018 14:40

Thanks Red.

I agree it is brinksmanship mixed with a dose of her own tunnel vision and loathing of foreigners.

I think the HoC will blink at the last minute and pass her WA.

1tisILeClerc · 14/12/2018 14:45

{I think the HoC will blink at the last minute and pass her WA.}
That's certainly what I am hoping.

Mrsr8 · 14/12/2018 14:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hazardswan · 14/12/2018 15:04

Revoke. Me want revoke. Me want revoke now.

Mrsr8 · 14/12/2018 15:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Icantreachthepretzels · 14/12/2018 15:09

I hope they hold firm and she blinks and revokes. Why go through three months of terrifying brinkmanship only to end up with the same shitty deal we could have had last week? If they're going to pass the W.A they need to do it sooner rather than later. If they're not going to pass it in January then they need to still be taking that same view in March, or else they have just wasted everyone's time and damaged the markets with uncertainty.

I know parliament can't force her to revoke - but they can apply a lot of pressure on the run up to March 29th. Not least because - with unilateral revocation being in her gift - any deaths of citizens that happen, as a result of no deal, will be entirely her fault. Even she isn't so blinkered she can't understand the consequences of that.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 14/12/2018 15:09

PMK
Thought the other thread had gone quiet Blush
Thanks red

DarlingNikita · 14/12/2018 15:09

I hope they hold firm and she blinks and revokes
I hope so too, but I don't have that much faith in our politicians.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 14/12/2018 15:13

Playing chicken with 60 million futures ought to be a criminal act! Not that I'm disagreeing with any of you, just commenting on how disgraceful this situation is generally.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/12/2018 15:14

Well, if someone doesn't blink, we crash down over the cliff edge

No Deal is the worst possible outcome for the non-wealthy in the UK

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2018 15:16

Guido Fawkes is currently crowing about how Switzerland have guaranteed their trade relationship with the UK even if there is no deal.

Can anyone see any barrier to having such a guarantee with an EU locked country?

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 14/12/2018 15:16

No Deal is the worst possible outcome for the non-wealthy in the UK

I doubt it's that brilliant for the regular folk, or even the comfortable folk either ....

Hazardswan · 14/12/2018 15:18

LOL I can! Is Switzerland trolling the UK?

DGRossetti · 14/12/2018 15:19

It's taken two years, but finally I have cracked the BBC problem.

They are unconscious Brexiteers.

Note the final paragraph here. Only a Brexiteer would think that after Brexit, the UK is somehow not a "non EU country".

Please tell me that my license fee isn't paying for these idiots ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46564884

Britons will have to pay €7 (£6.30) every three years to travel to EU countries, as a consequence of Brexit.

The European Commission has confirmed that while UK travellers will not need a visa, they will need to apply for and buy another document.

It is called an ETIAS (European Travel Information and Authorization System) and although not launched yet, is expected to come into force in 2021.

The travel requirement is not just for the UK but for many non-EU countries.

(contd)

Hazardswan · 14/12/2018 15:24

Doh! @ bbc. Which continent shall we move the country to post brexit then Grin

Also did anyone see the pro brexit march with yellow jackets as inspired by FRANCE? Did anyone tell them France is in the EU?

DGRossetti · 14/12/2018 15:27

It's not a doh. This is what they are (what's the MN mantra ? when someone tells you who they are, listen ?)

That's not a "slip" by the BBC. That's an article written to their house guidelines, which are that Brexit must be pushed at all costs. I'm pretty certain there's a name for that Hmm

DarlingNikita · 14/12/2018 15:33

I'm no fan of the BBC's Brexit coverage general, but to be fair I think this is to be read as 'The travel requirement is not just for the UK but for many other non-EU countries.', with the 'other' implicit.

Hazardswan · 14/12/2018 15:37

I haven't read the BBC news in months tbh I gave up.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7962563/westminster-bridge-blocked-pro-brexit-yellow-vest-protesters/

Sorry it's the sun. Only 60 people but obviously they were highly visible. No arrests just annoying.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2018 15:44

Faisal Islam
@faisalislam
Juncker just appeared to say Hungarian PM Orban was guilty of fake news when he said that Russia did not have a role in Brexit... ie it did.

DGRossetti · 14/12/2018 15:50

I haven't read the BBC news in months

You've not missed much. I pity anyone who relies on the BBC, and even more so anyone that trusts it.

Just look at how much airtime Brexiteers get, for a start.

EtVoilaBrexit · 14/12/2018 16:04

Late place mat.
Can’t keep up ( and err... actually do some work)

LouiseCollins28 · 14/12/2018 16:09

@DGRossetti Seriously? they've had bucket loads this week because they were trying to oust the PM, and a huge amount this month because of the "deal" vote/non-vote thing, I'll give you that much.

In the normal course of things though, the Beebs political programmes, QT for example, are seriously "remain" heavy IMO. You think they are "pushing" Brexit?

EtVoilaBrexit · 14/12/2018 16:13

We have the GFA and that's essentially what the backstop is about. Is it normal to break peace treaties?
I think a lot of people dint see the GFA as a peace treaty.
They’ve always seen the ‘Troubles’ not as a war, let alone a civil war, but as extremists terrorists.
So I suspect that breaking the GFA isn’t really an issue for them. Not would the ‘Troubles’ starting again in NI. That would be again just terrorists, not a war that was protected by an international treaty that THEY had signed....