Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

It was the responsibility of those who wanted it and told the public it was possible.
I think the problem is that the people saying it was/is possible haven't been in the position to progress the negotiations.

Maybe we need to see Farage (don't like him), Johnsson (don't like him) and the others now tasked with the negotiations. If they can't advance their ideas for a successful Brexit then maybe the voters would be more open to a second referendum.

As I see it now, the people trying to negotiate Brexit are the very ones who want to remain so they have a vested interest in making it fail.

I honestly believe remaining is the best option - remaining and addressing the issues of immigration, sovereignty etc using the tools already available to us.

And I would vote for a government willing to do that. But where are they? Who has offered to do this? Successive governments have taken us deeper into Europe and it feels like they have been content to surrender our autonomy as a country and this is where it has led us.

@MissMalice
still waiting on your solution, blackcurrantjam...
Sorry I accidentally condescended.....
What happens when blackcurrant jam melts?

I think @blackcurrantjam has flounced.

Perhaps we are on the same page after all, Weetabix

Farage can’t have a say - he’s not even an MP. Johnson and Gove could have had a say but ran away. Davis had a say and then quit. Raab had a say and then quit. Any others have had 2.5 years to come up with a viable plan and put it to those in charge but they haven’t.

Those negotiating currently are May - who has said none stop that we are leaving no matter what and Barclay who voted to Leave. Davis voted to Leave. Raab voted to Leave.

Sorry I accidentally condescended.....

Farage can’t have a say - he’s not even an MP.

But he was the main protagonist in getting the referendum and seems to be the main voice now in explaining how we can leave with least damage to the UK.

Everyone else seems to be a bit wishy washy on it all. Maybe give him a go? Bring him in as a special advisor?

And May might well say we are going but look at the deal she has secured? Her hope, I'm sure, is that no one will accept it and that the whole thing falls over. She then walks away claiming that she did her best to leave but was scuppered by parliament, when in reality it was what she wanted all along.

Maybe we need to see Farage (don't like him), Johnsson (don't like him) and the others now tasked with the negotiations. If they can't advance their ideas for a successful Brexit then maybe the voters would be more open to a second referendum.

Johnson, Gove, Fox etc said it would be the easiest deal ever. No downsides, only upsides. The EU would be desperate to do a deal. German car makers, Italian wine growers etc. would be banging on the door insisting that their governments did a deal. It was pure fantasy and nonsense then and still is now. Johnson has been on TV today with his usual fusillade of flatulence. They have advanced their ideas more than once, have been proved wrong more than once - why should they be given yet another chance?

As I see it now, the people trying to negotiate Brexit are the very ones who want to remain so they have a vested interest in making it fail.

I can see that May has tried to come up with some sort of compromise, even if I personally think it is unworkable and not in the interests of the UK, but 'the people trying to negotiate Brexit' were Davis, who wrongly thought that he could negotiate with individual members, and Raab, who didn't know that Dover was the vital, 10,000 trucks-a-day link between the UK and the EU (and who actually wants to take the UK out of the EU so that he and his cohorts Patel and Truss can enact 'Britannia Unchained' and remove all employee and consumer protection, abolish minimum wages etc so that the UK can compete with the low-regulation, low-wage economies of Asia)

@Weetabixandshreddies
leave with least damage to the UK.
And this is what you voted for? FFS

Everyone else seems to be a bit wishy washy on it all. Maybe give him a go? Bring him in as a special advisor?

Again, there’s been nothing to stop him suggesting a workable solution if he actually has one.

I’d accept your accusation of May if anyone was able to suggest a workable solution that she could have argued for. My feeling is that she’d be more inclined to go for No Deal than to remain.

The leavers left.

They couldn't do it. That was obvious from the start.

You need to stop thinking that we can do a u turn and stay in the EU.
Why?
Because that is exactly what the Advocate to the ECJ has said the UK can do at any time up to March 29

But he [Farage] was the main protagonist in getting the referendum and seems to be the main voice now in explaining how we can leave with least damage to the UK.

Everyone else seems to be a bit wishy washy on it all. Maybe give him a go? Bring him in as a special advisor?

Ha! Farage explaining how the UK can leave with least damage. The man who has single-handedly trashed the UK's reputation in Europe and as already cost the UK billions in lost jobs and lost trade. Next you'll be telling us that Esther McVey is a serious candidate to be the next PM, and that Peter Bone or Nadine Dorries should be her deputy.

@Moussemoose - having fallen back on the "you're all a bunch of meanies" argument, there wasn't really anywhere left to go other than flounce.

Next you'll be telling us that Esther McVey is a serious candidate to be the next PM, and that Peter Bone or Nadine Dorries should be her deputy.

Nope. Not at all. Wouldn't vote conservative if it was the only party on earth.

I don't know the best person to negotiate. What I do know is that whoever does it has to believe in what they are doing and has to be seen as serious by the opposition. How can you expect to get a good deal if you basically enter negotiations and immediately tell your opposition that you don't know what you want and that you will agree to anything so long as they are nice to you?

Were the terms of an exit not agreed before we joined, so a kind of EU pre nup? If not, why not?

I want a unicorn and a trampoline. Why isn't anyone prepared to give me that. Surely me wanting it is enough to make it so. If you can't deliver that to me you must be rubbish.

Knowing their was none suitable to lead the negotiations you still voted for it?

Look at the other people on the leaver bus. Some of them are marching through London today. These are you compatriots.

bellinisurge

Well, you can be as facetious as you like but the fact remains that remainers lost the referendum.

Maybe mount a campaign to be given a unicorn and a trampoline as compensation for losing the referendum?

These are you compatriots.

I have no compatriots thank you.

I was given 1 vote. I exercised that 1 vote on my own cognisance, not in conjunction with anyone else. We were all free to vote as we saw fit.

I know I lost and I accept the result. However Leavers' abdication of responsibility reads like my post

Weetabix
What sort of Brexit do you want?
Hard Brexit / No FOM / No trade deal ?
or
Soft Brexit / Trade deal / FOM ?
and
If you want no trade deal and no FOM, where do you expect the UK to import Nurses from ?
(as it has done every year since the NHS was started)

The leavers buggered off because they can't actually give a workable solution. All this talk of technology will sort the Irish border when tech experts say it can't. A border on the island of Ireland ruins the progress we've seen in the last 20 years. We have a peace of sorts and while it isn't perfect, I grew up in a border county in the 1970's & I'd prefer not to have my kids have the same kind of childhood I had.
All this talk of "well we'll just crash out" and "we'll be fine with wto rules" is only said by people who don't actually know what that means. Crashing out means kent becomes a lorry park. WTO rules mean that the tariffs on meat and dairy products mean that prices will skyrocket. WTO rules also require a border.....
You do realise that a lot of food produced in Northern Ireland and exported from here to the South of England presently crosses the invisible border into Ireland and then is moved by road and sea into England.
The United Kingdom has considerably less food security than Ireland which makes Priti Patels obnoxious and completely tone deaf remarks about threatening Ireland even worse.
The brexiteers have always maintained that the future relationship with the EU is easy and a deal will be easily done. That being the case, the backstop WILL NEVER BE NEEDED it's only there as an insurance policy...

Talkinpeece

I voted for a hard Brexit. Given the monumental cock up that has been made I have no idea any more.

What is on offer now looks nothing like what I voted for, which I guess has been the aim all along.

Make such a pig's ear of it that voters will agree to a 2nd referendum and vote to stay.

If you want no trade deal and no FOM, where do you expect the UK to import Nurses from?

We've been "importing" nurses from outside the EU for decades. It's "freedom" of movement that's the issue, not us having special rules for different occupations which is something we can't control when we have FOM.

Weetabix
I voted for a hard Brexit
So the 480 unaccountable bureaucrats at the WTO in Geneva were your ideal choice?
Why?

What I do know is that whoever does it has to believe in what they are doing and has to be seen as serious by the opposition.

Here we have the problem in a nutshell.

There is no point going into a negotiation and not believing in what you are proposing, but as Davis and Raab demonstrated, you need to know the difference between what is deliverable and what is wishful thinking. Neither appeared to even understand the basics of the EU, never mind how to negotiate with Barnier.

'The opposition'. The EU is not the opposition - the 27 countries want to have a mutually beneficial relationship with the UK, but they are not going to give the UK a better deal than they enjoy themselves. The EU also operates under a set of very strict rules. The entire UK stance of trying to negotiate exceptions to these rules, or to have the rules bent, goes entirely against the EU members mindset and has no chance of success.

The entire British win-lose approach to negotiations, with the EU but also internally (Conservative/Labour, Employers/Unions, buyers/sellers and much more) is based on opposition and confrontation - and is one of the reasons that the UK is in such a mess. In Europe, negotiations are about consensus and cooperation so that energies are spent on finding solutions that work for both parties.