Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

If it wasn't for NI and GFA, we would have had a Withdrawal Agreement.
With all its flaws and problems, GFA is the single most amazing political achievement of my long lifetime.
It is understandable that maintaining our GFA obligations while Brexiting would be difficult. TM's Deal is the best we can do to achieve that.
Tantrumming about Brexit Betrayal just ignores GFA.
The reason we have not had to worry about GFA is because miraculously we have made it work. That doesn't mean it is easily replaceable or can now be ignored.

If 'Leavers' really want to leave that desperately maybe a rerun of operation 'Frequent Wind' may be needed.
It was only 43 years ago.

If it wasn't for NI and GFA

Releasing terrorists from prison is the best thing to happen in your lifetime? Ok then

The GFA can stand. Nobody wants a hard border. Nobody on any side wants the fighting to start again. Its just not going to happen. Get with the programme bellinisurge

Guessing you don't like the compromises of the GFA, Arlene.
No, I don't like releasing terrorists. Nor do I like the fact that the US won't extradite to us the twats that escaped from prison.
But I also don't like nail bombs in Warrington.

"Get with the programme ". I think a bit of wee came out laughing at that one.

{Releasing terrorists from prison is the best thing to happen in your lifetime? Ok then}

That is just a tiny aspect of the 'problem'.
Some are defined as terrorists, but the same people viewed a different way are 'freedom fighters' trying to escape from tyranny.
Many people died.

Ok, stopped laughing ....
WTO rules require you have control of your economic area. Doesn't have to be a physical border but you have to have control.
We have a common travel area between us and Ireland. I'd like to think we could make that work without a border. So far so good.
It's really physically difficult to get to Ireland and I hope that would be sufficient deterrent to stop people sneaking into the UK over the Ireland/NI border. Assuming we are ok with Irish people doing this.
Ok, so far so good.
And then there's goods .... that's a bit trickier. If we are all in the same customs union it's generally ok. But that makes us a rule taker once we Brexit ... starting to see the problem?
There is the Priti Patel solution of starving Ireland (and consequently the EU) into submission. That would be the second time the UK has imposed starvation on the Irish as a tactic. It didn't go well. And is more likely to get the EU back up. Because this time Ireland has a bunch of big mates.

Sorry about your bladder problem.

We dont have to have a CU as such. Arguably better off without one. Can still do spot on checks on goods out of CU out of EU.

Anyone out of the EU is a rule taker if they want to trade with EU. Remember they will want access to our internal market so rules will have to be looked at on both sides.

Again with the spot checks. Who are these spot checkers and where will they physically be housed. As I have already explained on another thread, any infrastructure, even an ANPR camera will be vandalised within minutes of being put up.

In fact they already are being looked at. EU, WTO and UK have been in a room already to ensure everyone knows what's going on.

'Will be vandalised'. [Hmm]

." EU, WTO and UK have been in a room already to ensure everyone knows what's going on."

Yup and 20 WTO members have put in objections to the UK's schedules.

They haven't to the EU's.

The magic trick of the GFA is to pretend to people that the border isn't there. Do anything which ruins that and you unravel the whole thing.
If the technological solution is almost there why won't people accept the backstop. If the magic technological solution that you believe in is in place by 2020 we won't need to use the backstop at all.

Ok, and... part of the process, surely

You dont know why people wont accept the backstop

Vandalised is a polite way of saying shot out.

Enlighten me @blackcurrantjam . If we only use the backstop because we haven't quite sorted the technological solution and, by your explanation, the technological solution is almost there, what's the problem with the backstop? We won't need it according to you so what's the issue?

{Anyone out of the EU is a rule taker if they want to trade with EU}
That needs expanding to 'Anyone who trades with anyone else is a rule taker', so part of the 'rules' to trade with the USA is that the UK would have to accept any old shit that the USA sells as the UK is not going to bully the USA anytime soon. The last time at trying that went badly too.

A bit of a theme developing here I think.

The mess that we are in now is solely the fault of these inept politicians. It isn't the fault of people who voted Brexit. It is the fault of the conservative government and whoever voted them in.

It's progress that Leave and Remain supporters are engaging on here, certainly more than some politicians.

The premise of this thread is where now?- what's the plan?

There are concessions and agreement on both sides that we are in an acute mess.

There is also agreement on both sides that the Tory government is significantly to blame.

So some Leave voters can of course be forgiven for voting as they did in 2016. However given there is almost unanimity that we are now in an appalling crisis in 2018 surely Leave voters are culpable if they now still push for and support an exit come what may ( pun intended)?

Surely given we now agree on the mess we should ALL be writing to MPs, all insisting that it's called off ( Remainers) or postponed ( Leavers).

Bellini oh come on this is basic. Backstop is indefinite and backstop is not unilaterally get-out-of-able are two of issues. Ideally I would not have a backstop but it might have to be a compromise. But the two reasons above def need changing to get WA through parl.

It's only indefinite if there is no solution found to the NI/Ireland border. But you have said that the technological solution is nearly there. So, what's your problem ?

Could it possibly be that there is no technological solution to the border any time soon? Could that possibly be your concern?

Looks like WTO will be our only option now. It's not what anybody wanted but that's what we are getting.
We are in a mess.