Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

So, Weetabix, you are basically saying that you voted for rainbows and fluffy unicorns, because you were afraid that one day the big bogeyman might be nasty to you, and that the non-delivery of these promised unicorns is because the negotiators didn't do their job properly? And that doing any work to deduce that fluffy unicorns were, in fact, never attainable is not your job, and wasn't your job before you voted, because it's all too complicated for you to understand?

Right......

Really? Because things have clearly gone so well?

Can you not see what you are saying?
Being in the EU is great
We haven't given up sovereignty
We can still make all of our own decisions
Well, of course you can't just leave and the EU can make it as difficult and as painful as they like.

It's for that very reason that I don't want to stay, can you not see that?

Read any relationship post on here. Any woman who posts saying that she is being financially controlled by her husband is told to leave because it will get worse. Yes leaving is difficult but you have to get out.

That is how I feel. We have to get out now before we get in even deeper and it will be even more difficult.

What is happening now is just ridiculous and TM is weakening our position with every turn.

cantkeepawayforever

Yeah that's exactly what I am saying - I was voting for unicorns and fluffy clouds.

I did not sign up to join the EU. Whoever did should have made damn sure that an exit clause was included, that didn't give all of the power to the EU. When David Cameron promised the referendum he should have made damn sure that they had very clear plans as to how to execute the will of the people.

No one, not even you, has full knowledge of all of the legalities of trying to negotiate this exit. How can we make a plan? Shall I nip up to Downing Street and ask for a quick look at all of the relevant documents?

The mess that we are in now is solely the fault of these inept politicians. It isn't the fault of people who voted Brexit. It is the fault of the conservative government and whoever voted them in.

No @Weetabixandshreddies being in the EU isn't brilliant. The economy generally isn't brilliant.
But flushing it down the loo on a whim, on hurt feelings, is not better than that.
When there's no food in the shops or it's hideously more expensive because the food supply chain is screwed, that's really not brilliant.

There is an exit clause.

There has been a series of negotiations - it's just the EU are a lot better at it than we are.

All the leavers put in change ran away.

We are not financially controlled by the EU, we pay our bills. That is like saying you are financial controlled by Tesco.

We can make our own decisions we are doing that now. Very badly. The ECJ has ruled we can decide to stay or go.

All the reasons you have given for leaving proven incorrect. Can we stay now?

The EU is not brilliant, it maintains the status quo, no one, no one has said it is brilliant. Stop putting words in the mouths of remainers.

They didn't cock up the negotiations

I really do beg to differ!!
I bet alot of others posters do too as there have been posts for literal years now on the incompetency of the brexit negotiators.

The Brexit negotiators were brilliant.

The EU negotiators that is. The ones employed by the EU.

I wish they worked for and represented the U.K...

All the reasons you have given for leaving proven incorrect. Can we stay now?
It isn't up to me whether we stay or go.

You say my reasons are incorrect. I disagree. You can't see into the future and see where the EU ends up. My fears remain

I was asked what I wanted and said to leave.

The government has decided to abide by that. They had the option not to. Given that, they should have made very sure that they secured a good deal.

Moussemoose

And whose fault is that?

These 'leavers' really don't get it.
Leave means LEAVE, which means the EU owes the UK NOTHING.
Since it is presumed the inhabitants of the UK don't want to starve and some might want to get off the island some negotiations are necessary.
If you truly want to leave with NO negotiations then all planes and ships from the EU to the UK,and in fact everywhere else have to stop as they would be breaking international laws.
The WA that has been agreed by 450 Million Europeans and Mrs May, is a routemap for a negotiated departure. The UK complain it is too harsh, the 450 Million are complaining because it is not harsh enough.
There are 4 basic 'rules' for being in the EU and they have to continue, so the Chequers paper which deliberately set out to demolish all the EU's rules was NEVER going to fly and it was gross stupidity by the UK government to even write it.
Remain, although a LEGAL option would be the best ECONOMICALLY, on the basis that UK citizens like to eat, buy consumer goods and have a health service, but could be seen as undemocratic considering the people who were voting for unicorns said they want out.
I am not sure how good 'unicorn' medical training is, or whether they will actually deliver all the things that UK citizens want but if you really want to leave, especially without the WA, you had better start praying because the politicians CAN'T deliver.

Oh, and when you leave, you need to sort out the UK border in NI and pay the £19 Billion that the UK owes the EU (up to March 2019).

We haven't given up sovereignty We haven't.

We can still make all of our own decisions We do.

Well, of course you can't just leave and the EU can make it as difficult and as painful as they like. The point is that we can just leave. It's not that the EU is making it difficult or painful, they're just not scrapping their fundamental ideals (and the rules which we helped form) in order to smooth the internal political troubles of what will be an ex-member of their 'club'.

We want to leave. That's fine with them.

We want an ongoing special relationship with them. That's fine with them, as long as it doesn't negatively impact the EU or any of its members.

I just don't see that the EU are making things difficult or painful for us. You seem to be blaming any problems on the EU's attitude, rather than accepting that it's our specific demands for our future relationship with the EU which are causing the problems

I bet alot of others posters do too as there have been posts for literal years now on the incompetency of the brexit negotiators.

I don't agree that this is the fault of our negotiaters, the problem is Brexit, negotiations wouldn't have gone well regardless of who was doing it. The electorate were promised the impossible and 52% of them were stupid enough to believe the lies.

Correction
Yes, because the LEAVE politicians have completely cocked up the negotiations.
Davis,Fox, Johnson. Or were simply too bone idle to even try.

I can't stand Theresa May but she's begun to negotiate a Leave deal and you are still not satisfied.

In any election parties make promises as to what they will do if elected - no one expects the voters to produce plans as to how these manifesto promises can be achieved.

But manifestos don't usually promise the totally unattainable or an 'interpret as you wish' option. If they did, I would expect voters to exercise some judgement before voting for it.

If Brexit collapses what the "EU" is saying to the other members is that they can do whatever they want to do to them because what can they do? Leave? No. They will have them held to ransom.

That is a good reason to negotiate a decent deal - to set a precedent in case they want to leave.

But manifestos don't usually promise the totally unattainable

Really? Scrap tuition fees?????

I agree with Kenn's post above. I don't see why Leavers can't grasp this. It isn't a case of people not negotiating well enough; it's a case of trying to negotiate the impossible.

Really? Scrap tuition fees?????
Why would that be unattainable? I would expect voters to question how the costs of this would be met, but it certainly isn't unattainable. Tuition fees were only introduced in 1998, so if it was attainable then, it's attainable now.

The EU aren't doing anything to us though. We (apparently) want to leave. Rather than just treat us like any other third country they're willing to give us preferential treatment, but not to the extent that it negatively impacts the EU or any of its members. What is it about that that you can't grasp Weetabixandshreddies?

They're not obliged to give us any preferential treatment at all but we want more than they're prepared to give.

Hugo Rifkind @hugorifkind

The thing is, the best way to understand Theresa May’s predicament is to imagine that 52 percent of Britain had voted that the government should build a submarine out of cheese.

Now, Theresa May was initially against building a submarine out of cheese, obviously. Because it’s a completely insane thing to do.



However, in order to become PM, she had to pretend that she thought building a submarine out of cheese was fine and could totally work.


"Cheese means cheese," she told us all, madly.



Then she actually built one.



It’s shit. Of course it is. For God’s sake, are you stupid? It’s a submarine built out of cheese.


So now, having built a shit cheese submarine, she has to put up with both Labour and Tory Brexiters insisting that a less shit cheese submarine could have been built.



They’re all lying, and they know it. So does everybody else. We've covered this already, I know, but it’s cheese and it’s a submarine. How good could it possibly be?



Only she can’t call them out on this. Because she has spent the past two years also lying, by pretending she really could build a decent submarine out of cheese.



So that’s where we are.



Scrapping tuition fees isn't unattainable.

Every other European country seems to manage to educate its youth without making them pay through the nose for it.

Its a matter of priorities.

{That is a good reason to negotiate a decent deal - to set a precedent in case they want to leave}

The 'rules' are already written down in 28 languages. I suspect you could go on the .EU website and read them for yourself. On the basis that ALL the countries signed up to be a member in the first place SOMEONE in each country knows what was signed for and if they forget, it is there on the website.
The UK felt so 'entitled' that particularly the current politicians, rather than the civil service, felt they could DELIBERATELY set a bunch of red lines that they KNEW couldn't get through the EU. The UK was spoiling for a fight from the beginning and it will lose every aspect that tries to break up the EU. It is the same as your toddler being 'naughty' to test out the world's limits, but in this case it is the EU rules, which the UK collaborated in drafting, making it doubly stupid.